Throat wound was headshot(s) shrapnel

[ChristophMessner]

tpfleming wrote:Yes, Chris, I wrote the book myself. Wow, I have to get this book. tpfleming wrote:What exactly, then, do you suppose was umbrella man's purpose? Signal man? Yes. And he attracted Kennedy to look to the right out of the car. tpfleming wrote: Don't you think such a conspicuous signal (flailing a black umbrella on a bright, sunny day) was just as risky as firing a flechette? No, not as risky, because while not shooting he could not shoot the wrong person. tpfleming wrote: Then again, I suppose the plotters never really believed that the Zapruder film would be released in our lifetimes. C.D. Jackson, of Life magazine, was nothing if not a CIA asset. Thus, plotters probably assumed that umbrella man's actions would be seen only by eyewitnesses. And we know what's happened to many of the eyewitnesses. I think so, too. Chris

[Chad Duncan]

I still think the throat wound was from the truck down near where the man by the triple overpass was hit with a ricochet and was part of the bullet that passed through the windshield. With several people, including the man that worked for Ford in Michigan that had the limo there 3-4 days after the assassination and saw that it was a perfect bullet hole thru and thru from a frontal shot with the back side jagged out, it most likely was the resulting wound originator. The glass in JFK's face that came with the projectile was the selling point to me. I just dont see how a splinter of a bullet could change direction, still penetrating several layers of soft tissue and possibly bone to come out BELOW the adams apple seems a near impossible occurence for that to be the throat wound. On top of that being a perfectly round hole? Just doesnt seem plausible. Plus they found the bullet inside Kennedy , or as it states the 4th bullet that no one could account for and was hidden from public knowledge to this very day.

[Bob]

In terms of the throat wound, let me say this...I believe the initial reaction of JFK was from a back wound...the same wound that Gerry Ford moved up several inches to make the "magic bullet" theory somewhat plausible. I also know what Jimmy believes...that the mercury round from his shot also caused the throat wound. Jimmy was an expert in guns and ammunition and what effect they would cause. That is why he used a fireball with a mercury round if he was needed. Again, Nicoletti told him only to shoot if JFK was not killed at that point. From Jimmy's vantage point, he was not aware that Nicoletti's last shot was forthcoming and his shot and Nicoletti's would cause a simultaneous and vicious impact. When you see the shot (shots), it is a horrific scene. Jimmy used a fireball because he would be the last person in Dealey Plaza to ensure that JFK would be killed before he would be out of the killing zone. Jimmy trusted the fireball and mercury round in terms of the damage that would be caused. Saying all of that, I also think the the throat wound may have been caused by another rifle from another place up front of the car. Either near Jimmy or on the south knoll. But I also have to give Jimmy's explanation about the throat wound a lot of credence based on his expertise.

[tom jeffers]

the problem with a shot being fired with the umbrella is the accuracy. the umbrella and cane were used by cia agents for close up work, they were not accurate for anything long range or a moving target. there was no way to effectively aim.Namaste'

[ChristophMessner]

Chad Duncan wrote:I still think the throat wound was from the truck down near where the man by the triple overpass was hit with a ricochet and was part of the bullet that passed through the windshield. But Tague and the railroad workers on the triple overpass would have heard and seen a shooter from there? Chad Duncan wrote: With several people, including the man that worked for Ford in Michigan that had the limo there 3-4 days after the assassination and saw that it was a perfect bullet hole thru and thru from a frontal shot with the back side jagged out, it most likely was the resulting wound originator. The glass in JFK's face that came with the projectile was the selling point to me. Which glass in his face? Chad Duncan wrote:I just dont see how a splinter of a bullet could change direction, still penetrating several layers of soft tissue and possibly bone to come out BELOW the adams apple seems a near impossible occurence for that to be the throat wound. On top of that being a perfectly round hole? Just doesnt seem plausible. Plus they found the bullet inside Kennedy , or as it states the 4th bullet that no one could account for and was hidden from public knowledge to this very day. So you think, a bullet from behind could not have been deflected on impact on a bone? I agree with you that the throat wound could not have been an exit wound of a bullet. Bob wrote: I also think the the throat wound may have been caused by another rifle from another place up front of the car. Either near Jimmy or on the south knoll. But I also have to give Jimmy's explanation about the throat wound a lot of credence based on his expertise. The south knoll is pretty far away. Actually you see on that photo where you see that man on the pickup of a pickup truck, that this man is standing behind the truck, not on it, because you see all rims of the pickup part. Think about how planners thought were to position the shooters. Would you position on the south knoll, where shots could go into the spectators or the ladies or the driver in the limo mistakenly? And shooting from the Tague position? I don't think they placed a shooter where he could be well observed. No it was at a hidden place, like grassy knoll, TSBD, DalTex, Records building. Behind the pergola? Unfavourable angle to shoot, isn't it? Chris

[Chad Duncan]

Heard it - not necessarily any different than the other shots especially if it was aimed uphill at the time. If he had a tarp over himself and a shot occured if you turned to look but couldnt see the rifle you would think it was a ricochet.JFK had shards of glass embedded in his face and around his neck.As far as placement the limo was heading straight towards that truck at that angle at the time and a rifle with a scope would have the shooters view like it was 20 yards away plus your target is moving at you. Other than the planners or as I hear it they wanted Jackie to be unharmed they would have killed a hundred spectators if need be to succeed. He had to die, and it had to be then. I would think the School Book depo was the worst place to shoot from, especially the 6th floor. Daltex and the knoll great spots.

[ChristophMessner]

tom jeffers wrote: umbrella ... accuracy ... there was no way to effectively aim. I agree. Especially while you hold it upright and JFK is driving at 90 degrees by you.

[ThomZajac]

Bob wrote:In terms of the throat wound, let me say this...I believe the initial reaction of JFK was from a back wound...the same wound that Gerry Ford moved up several inches to make the "magic bullet" theory somewhat plausible. I also know what Jimmy believes...that the mercury round from his shot also caused the throat wound. Jimmy was an expert in guns and ammunition and what effect they would cause. That is why he used a fireball with a mercury round if he was needed. Again, Nicoletti told him only to shoot if JFK was not killed at that point. From Jimmy's vantage point, he was not aware that Nicoletti's last shot was forthcoming and his shot and Nicoletti's would cause a simultaneous and vicious impact. When you see the shot (shots), it is a horrific scene. Jimmy used a fireball because he would be the last person in Dealey Plaza to ensure that JFK would be killed before he would be out of the killing zone. Jimmy trusted the fireball and mercury round in terms of the damage that would be caused. Saying all of that, I also think the the throat wound may have been caused by another rifle from another place up front of the car. Either near Jimmy or on the south knoll. But I also have to give Jimmy's explanation about the throat wound a lot of credence based on his expertise.This is interesting....IF the wound to the throat was a wound of entry, that would mean there was another shooter in front besides Files; was that shooter part of a team too? Where was he? Did he have the same orders as Files, or did he shoot sooner? What evidence is there to support another shooter from the front? Until quite recently when I read it on this site, I didn't consider that the throat wound may have been caused by Files' fatal head shot, but it adds up. I can't discount the umbrella dart, but since the doctors spotted that wound it wouldn't have made much sense either since the plan was to kill JFK from the rear and blame it on Oswald. I see Wim is firmly convinced the wound was caused by Files' shot, and so all in all, that looks like the best explanation to me. While we're on the subject, how much credence is there for a shot striking the back of the Stemmons Freeway Sign? That shot would have had come from the right front as well, but again, that flies in the face of framing Oswald by having all the shots coming from behind. I believe I remember that the sign was taken down shortly after the assassination, perhaps because of the bullet hole, but another explanation -if the sign was indeed removed- would be because the sign was moved in the altered Zapruder film and so it needed to be removed to avoid that detection. I know Wim doesn't go for the altered Zapruder film concept, but I am of the view that it still must be considered a possibility/liklihood.I guess that's enough rambling for now- I'm kid in a candy store!

[Jsnow915]

didn't Tosh Plumlee say he was on the south knoll(Ithink its south) with someone else and they smelled the gun powder?

[Bob]

That is correct John. That is why I think there was a chance that a shooter was in that location.