Is this possible for 17 y.o. boy to be sent to Laos?

[kenmurray]

Welcome to the forum Robert.

[Robert Wagner]

Davyjones wrote:Hi Mr Wagner....fascinating posts on this subject. I am curious about your comment on the MOS number. You say a 5 digit response would be correct but give away a vital number..3 as the first digit.Surely you could keep this to yourself as a means of verification of any response? You say 4 digits is incorrect..but surely any number of digits other than 5 is wrong? A cynic might think that this is a trap! I look forward to responses from the forum to your questions. Asking for MOS is a legitimate question and good way to distinguish real from phony. People whose military knowledge came from newspapers, movies and the History Channel usually don't know what an MOS is, whereas people telling the truth will answer without hesitation. Another good question is what model radio he used. The correct answer -- PRC10 -- is not secret, it could be looked up on the internet, but is not something a poseur would know. The answer I gave WAS a trap, because a 3 prefix pertained to officers; enlisted used a different designation. Knowing the name of Operation White Star doesn't prove Files was there. The name was not secret. He could have read about it in the newspaper or found it on the internet. Given his account of training Cuban invaders at Interpen in 1962-3, not the Bay of Pigs team in 1961, and the name change to White Star in 1961, the facts say he was Laos in 1962 rather than 1959.

[Barney]

I do not recall that Jimmy Files/Sutton, has ever claimed to be a bona fide member of the Green Berets. He did claim to be a member of amercenary group who were in Laos and Cambodia although the government denied any of our troops were ever there at all. Jimmy says thathe attended parachute training at Ft. Bragg as I recall it, made the mandatory 5 jumps and no more in his military career as he was involvedin training Laotian military for counter insurgency combat actions, not flying and not jumping from planes. Barney

[Bob]

Here is what Jimmy Files said...Q: Were you ever in the armed services? A: I was in the 82nd Airborne. I went in '59...1959, date of entry...January and in July 10 of 1959, I believe it was July 10, we shipped out to Laos. I was 82nd Airborne.(1)Q: What were some of your duties? A: My duties at that time...we were working a special operations group to work with the Laotian Army in Laos at that time. I was there strictly as an advisor..on training...with small automatic weapons...setting detonators, explosives, mechanical ambushes. There was just a handful of Americans working with the Laotians at that time. Q: How long did you serve there? A: I was there through...approximately 14 months I was in Laos..before I came home. Q: You mentioned to me at one time that you were in jeopardy of being court martialed could you elaborate on that a little bit? A: I really don't wish to elaborate on that part of the court martial. It had to do in the field but not of cowardice, it was something that I did to hold face with the Laotian Army. I see no mention of the Green Beret. I think Jimmy is pretty positive it was 1959 when he went to Laos. He knew the exact date as a matter of fact.

[Phil Dragoo]

Whoa. Bob, did I just see you trap a straw beret?Nice catch.I can't believe the level of vileness in the attacks on James Files.And yet Bugliosi, Posner, Dunkel, Von Punk get away with murder.You wanna deconstruct a false warrior--let's do Robert Oswald."Lee was still watching reruns of I Led Three Lives when I joined the Marines."Marty! 88 miles per hour!

[Bob]

Another thing. Jimmy said he returned 14 months or so after he went Laos. That means he returned around October 1960, or thereabouts. One month before JFK was elected. And almost 6 months before the Bay of Pigs. And 5 years after Marty returned to Hill Valley. I wish Doc Brown could send me to Dallas around October, 1963. I mean, he sent one Fox back in time, why not another?

[bob franklin]

Bob, speaking of which...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6a4T2tJ ... &index=33I sent out an email about this a few days ago. My mind reels at the questions we could answer.

[Robert Wagner]

Files said, "Because I wanted to calibrate the scopes, you know, not only for the Fireball but for the other weapons as well." I take that to mean he was sighting in rifles for other shooters. Wrong, you can't sight in a gun for someone else. A weekend amateur might think you can, but a professional assassin would not allow it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------If I were an assassin setting someone up to be a patsy, I would equip him with a gun that fires the same bullets I'm using. Not necessarily the same cartridge, just the same bullet size. I'd give him half a box of ammo and put bullets from the other half on my cartridges. That way, metallurgy tests would find the bullets in the victim came from the same batch as bullets in the patsy's gun, ergo he did it. The only problem would be if bullets remained intact enough for ballistic fingerprinting, as sometimes happens with large heavy bullets. To add an artful touch, I could drop a matching bullet on the victim's stretcher at the hospital. Most people are unaware that exact same bullet size is in the .222 Fireball cartridge, the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge used in the M16 and the .221 used in the AR15. All three measure .224 inches (5.7 mm) and have a twist of 1/12". All come in bullet weight 55 grains. If you found such a bullet in a victim, it would be impossible to tell from which cartridge or gun it had been fired. A bullet that small will be fragmented, making fingerprinting impossible. We know there was a 7.65 mm Mauser found in the TSBD. My theory is there were three matched pairs of shooters and patsies, equipped with .222, 6.5 mm and 7.65 mm. They waited to see which shooter scored before busting his patsy. Files was the patsy for an AR15 shooter who missed. The one who scored was firing 162 gr bullets from a 6.5 mm rifle; his patsy was Oswald. A backup shooter who did not fire was using a 7.65 mm (Remington 700P?). There was another patsy in the TSBD tied to the Mauser.

[Barney]

members, prob. like many of you, I felt sorry for Marina P Oswald, a young bride in a foreign country, and now a widow with two youngdaughters and afraid she would be deported back to Russia, when she was just beginning to like and enjoy the States. However, as timeand informtion has become available and leaked out, I find it odd that in little more than one month, she meets and agrees to marry thisodd duck, LHO. He had been turned down by a beaautiful Russian girl named Ella German, as she found him unattractive and rather odd.He dated other girls tht he met at trade union dances and festivals over weekends in Minsk. Soon he met Marina Prusakova and he fell inlove all over again trying to put the disappointment of the refusal of Ella German out of his mind for good. After a short whirlwind courtshipMarina accepted the marriage proposal of LHO, but he did not tell her his plans to return to the USA, fearing she would be afraid lo leavethe homeland she had always known and the loving home of her uncle and aunt.i found it rather absurd that shortly after LHO marries this Russian young woman,allegedly, she commits adultery with one of their friends while Lee Harvey Oswald, or his impersonatoris on an approved trip to the US Embassy in Moscow to see about returning to the States. She states that she felt bad about it on the onehand but was horny and Lee was not a very patient or loving mate, inadequate lover, so she did her thing. Later on, and perhaps not the first time, its allegedly stated by some,that she cheated with none other than LHO's brother, Robert Oswald, before and after LHO was murdered by Jack Ruby in front of millionson tv. Its also alleged that she had several sexual liasons, with her housemate, Ruth Payne, and with people she was surrounded with from the Russian speaking community. Even with some of the secret service and fbi people, who were keeping her quiet and safe from the media frenzy over the JFK murder and herhusband being the designated murderer. Sounds to an old country boy that she might be what we call here a loose woman or worse, perhapsa secreet KGB spy plant.

[Robert Wagner]

Bob wrote:Here is what Jimmy Files said...A: I was in the 82nd Airborne. I went in '59...1959, date of entry...January and in July 10 of 1959, I believe it was July 10, we shipped out to Laos. I was 82nd Airborne.(1)Following is a response from the keeper of Laos List (http://www.angelfire.com/home/laoslist/), a non-governmental web site that has a fairly complete list of western military and civilian personnel in Laos from the 1950s to 1975, with emphasis on White Star. >Was any member of 82nd Airborne, in particular James Sutton, deployed with Hotfoot in July 1959? No. I have two Suttons as part of White Star - both in 1962. I believe both were SF. >Were two Americans killed by friendly fire in late-59/early-60? Sutton says he shot them in the head. A DoD listing of people killed/died in SEA does not list any losses in the 59/60 period that would fit. Nothing on friendly fire although that is hard to track.Tom Lee (Col USAF Ret)aka TargeteerSavannakhet Laos1968-1969