Why was Oswald hostile at the cinema?

[neab]

thanks for the loong response thom! Although,I've read pretty much all that somewhere before...I was more interested in to your opinion as to why he was agressive. I personally doubt the first hand accounts were lies, cos why would dallas police officers lie right away.They're not part of any big plot. I think the tippit scene was marlow and ruby , from the descriptions in the testimony of markham and clemmons. Pretty sick that acquilia clemmons claimed, that she was told to shut up pretty much! The only reason i think oswald might have been hostile is he thought he was double crossed, if he's an innocent man as most of us here believe then why the odd behaviour? Maybe it's simply fear of gettin shot right there. This background stories of jfk make me want to keep going down the rabbit hole like in alice in wonderland...Thanks for the responses peeps.Neab

[ThomZajac]

Well, according my previous post, Oswald said he took a swing a the policeman because he (Oswald) was carrying a gun and he knew he shouldn't have been. Why he would think fighting was therefore a good idea, I don't know, and whether this is really what happened, ditto.One thing to keep in mind; Oswald was an agent of US intelligence (doesn't really matter if CIA or FBI or ?), and that almost everything he did was because he was told/ordered to do so. Was he told to take his pistol to the theatre? Was he told to get into a fight when searched? Rabbit holes are the speciality of the intelligence operations.Lastly, I do think SOME of those employed with the Dallas Police Department were fully aware of a plot to kill the president and were willing participants.

[bob franklin]

The most likely reason for Oswald's hostile behavior in the face of having been set up would seem to be to draw attention to himself, as he was most certainly expecting a hit from DPD. Hard to execute your patsy with a group of witnesses watching you. That'd be my best guess. It's what I'd do.

[saracarter766]

neab thank you so much for stating this thread it is very interesting. and i always wondered just why oswald was carrying a handgun while being at the texas theater.

[Bob]

neab wrote:thanks for the loong response thom! Although,I've read pretty much all that somewhere before...I was more interested in to your opinion as to why he was agressive. I personally doubt the first hand accounts were lies, cos why would dallas police officers lie right away.They're not part of any big plot. I think the tippit scene was marlow and ruby , from the descriptions in the testimony of markham and clemmons. Pretty sick that acquilia clemmons claimed, that she was told to shut up pretty much! The only reason i think oswald might have been hostile is he thought he was double crossed, if he's an innocent man as most of us here believe then why the odd behaviour? Maybe it's simply fear of gettin shot right there. This background stories of jfk make me want to keep going down the rabbit hole like in alice in wonderland...Thanks for the responses peeps.NeabThere have been many well documented quotes from the DA Wade, Chief Curry, other policemen and the press around the time of the assassination that have turned out to be completely false and bogus. Not all the Dallas cops were part of the conspiracy to be sure, but several were. But there were some local law enforcement officials who were very brave at the time, ESPECIALLY guys like Roger Craig. Wim posted this once before, but it talks of Craig's courage...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyvRfeLD ... re=related

[ThomZajac]

bob franklin wrote:The most likely reason for Oswald's hostile behavior in the face of having been set up would seem to be to draw attention to himself, as he was most certainly expecting a hit from DPD. Hard to execute your patsy with a group of witnesses watching you. That'd be my best guess. It's what I'd do.This makes sense to me. Oswald was sensing he was being set up, bypassed the Tippit/Marlow/Ruby rendezvous, snuck in to the theatre so that the police would be summoned, did not try to escape (certain death), and then became entangled with a policeman to lessen the chances of being shot. I'm not saying this with any degree of certainty, only stating that this scenario seems plausible.

[ChristophMessner]

ThomZajak, thank you very much for this compilation of all Oswald-quotes! The following sentences, which I marked in red, make me convinced, that Oswald somehow collaborated with the real assassins, but thought his handlers would cover this collaboration for so sure, that even bringing 10 rifles into the TSBD and building 10 sniper's nests would never lead the track back to him. Obviously his handlers had told him before, that they are going to blow off the real assassins for sure 100% and Oswald would not have to fear to lose his cover at all. 9:30 - 11:15 A.M., SUNDAY MORNING, NOV. 24,1963 Interrogation in Capt. Will Fritz's Office"After the assassination, a policeman or some man came rushing into the School Book Depository Building and said, `Where is your telephone?' He showed me some kind of credential and identified himself, so he might not have been a police officer. . . . `Right there,' I answered, pointing to the phone. . . . `Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, `but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' [The elevator in the building was broken.] . . . After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what it was all about. A police officer and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building. . . . If you ask me about the shooting of Tippit, I don't know what you are talking about. . . . The only thing I am here for is because I popped a policeman in the nose in the theater on Jefferson Avenue, which I readily admit I did, because I was protecting myself. . . . I learned about the job vacancy at the Texas School Book Depository from people in Mrs. Paine's neighborhood. . . . I visited my wife Thursday night, Nov. 21, whereas I normally visited her over the weekend, because Mrs. Paine was giving a party for the children on the weekend. They were having a houseful of neighborhood children. I didn't want to be around at such a time. . . . Therefore, my weekly visit was on Thursday night instead of on the weekend. . . . It didn't cost much to go to Mexico. It cost me some $26, a small, ridiculous amount to eat, and another ridiculous small amount to stay all night. . . . I went to the Mexican Embassy to try to get this permission to go to Russia by way of Cuba. . . . I went to the Mexican Consulate in Mexico City. I went to the Russian Embassy to go to Russia by way of Cuba. They told me to come back in `thirty days.' . . . I don't recall the shape, it may have been a small sack, or a large sack; you don't always find one that just fits your sandwiches. . . . The sack was in the car, beside me, on my lap, as it always is. . . . I didn't get it crushed. It was not on the back seat. Mr. Frazier must have been mistaken or else thinking about the other time when he picked me up. . . . The Fair Play for Cuba Committee was a loosely organized thing and we had no officers. Probably you can call me the secretary of it because I did collect money. [Oswald was the only member in New Orleans.] . . . In New York City they have a well-organized, or a better, organization. . . . No, not at all: I didn't intend to organize here in Dallas; I was too busy trying to get a job. . . . If anyone else was entitled to get mail in P.O. Box 6525 at the Terminal Annex in New Orleans, the answer is no. . . . The rental application said Fair Play for Cuba Committee and the American Civil Liberties Union. Maybe I put them on there. . . . It is possible that on rare occasions I may have handed one of the keys to my wife to get my mail, but certainly nobody else. . . . I never ordered a rifle under the name of Hidell, Oswald, or any other name. . . . I never permitted anyone else to order a rifle to be received in this box. . . . I never ordered any rifle by mail order or bought any money order for the purpose of paying for such a rifle. . . . I didn't own any rifle. I have not practiced or shot with a rifle. . . . I subscribe to two publications from Russia, one being a hometown paper published in Minsk, where I met and married my wife. . . . We moved around so much that it was more practical to simply rent post office boxes and have mail forwarded from one box to the next rather than going through the process of furnishing changes of address to the publishers. . . . Marina Oswald and A. J. Hidell were listed under the caption of persons entitled to receive mail through my box in New Orleans. . . . I don't recall anything about the A. J. Hidell being on the post office card. . . . I presume you have reference to a map I had in my room with some X's on it. I have no automobile. I have no means of conveyance. I have to walk from where I am going most of the time. I had my applications with the Texas Employment Commission. They furnished me names and addresses of places that had openings like I might fill, and neighborhood people had furnished me information on jobs I might get. . . . I was seeking a job, and I would put these markings on this map so I could plan my itinerary around with less walking. Each one of these X's represented a place where I went and interviewed for a job. . . . You can check each one of them out if you want to. . . . The X on the intersection of Elm and Houston is the location of the Texas School Book Depository. I did go there and interview for a job. In fact, I got the job there. That is all the map amounts to. [Ruth Paine later stated she had marked Lee's map.] . . . What religion am I? I have no faith, I suppose you mean, in the Bible. I have read the Bible. It is fair reading, but not very interesting. As a matter of fact, I am a student of philosophy and I don't consider the Bible as even a reasonable or intelligent philosophy. I don't think of it. . . . I told you I haven't shot a rifle since the Marines, possibly a small bore, maybe a .22, but not anything larger since I have left the Marine Corps. . . . I never received a package sent to me through the mailbox in Dallas, Box No. 2915, under the name of Alek Hidell, absolutely not. . . . Maybe my wife, but I couldn't say for sure whether my wife ever got this mail, but it is possible she could have." Oswald was told that an attorney offered to assist him, and he answered, "I don't particularly want him, but I will take him if I can't do any better, and will contact him at a later date. . . . I have been a student of Marxism since the age of 14. . . . American people will soon forget the President was shot, but I didn't shoot him. . . . Since the President was killed, someone else would take his place, perhaps Vice-President Johnson. His views about Cuba would probably be largely the same as those of President Kennedy. . . . I never lived on Neely Street. These people are mistaken about visiting there, because I never lived there. . . . It might not be proper to answer further questions, because what I say might be construed in a different light than what I actually meant it to be. . . . When the head of any government dies, or is killed, there is always a second in command who would take over. . . . I did not kill President Kennedy or Officer Tippit. If you want me to cop out to hitting or pleading guilty to hitting a cop in the mouth when I was arrested, yeah, I plead guilty to that. But I do deny shooting both the President and Tippit."

[ThomZajac]

Christoph wrote..."The following sentences, which I marked in red, make me convinced, that Oswald somehow collaborated with the real assassins, but thought his handlers would cover this collaboration for so sure, that even bringing 10 rifles into the TSBD and building 10 sniper's nests would never lead the track back to him. Obviously his handlers had told him before, that they are going to blow off the real assassins for sure 100% and Oswald would not have to fear to lose his cover at all."I'm not with you step for step on this one, Christoph. I do think there is strong evidence to suggest that Oswald (US intelligence) was being manipulated; he was being instructed to infiltrate a plot of some kind regarding the president and the motorcade. In other words, while he may have been very well aware of a plot against the president, known various participants, and perhaps aided them, he was doing so as an informant.He said he was "just a patsy." A patsy is an innocent person set up to take the wrap. I could be wrong, of course, but that's what I think he was.

[ChristophMessner]

Thom, yes, I agree with you, that the job he had to do there is infiltration and being informant and that's what he thought his role is. But you see, I judge Oswald intelligent enough to have registered, that he might become a suspect, if he stayes in the TSBD while the shooting takes place. So why did he not just move out of the building at 12:29 already? I guess, it was open to him till 12:30, whether the shooting will take place or not and he had to fulfill a job there for the real assassins for their getaway. I think it is Oswald at the entrance in the Altgens photo. So why did he go back into the building? What made him so certain, that he won't become a suspect? Maybe his handlers had told him, that the shooters would shoot from other places, TSBD would only be setting the wrong track. Was Oswald's job only to make the elevator reserved for the shooters and being blocked for imcoming police? Did he touch any boxes and rifles at all on the sixth floor? Didn't Warren Caster have brought in two rifles before? Would he have "made order" again and wiped out all traces on the 6th floor, if the shooting would have been aborted? How was his real attitude towards JFK and the Cubans? Chris

[bob franklin]

according to Judyth Baker, whom I believe, his attitude toward JFK was good. He was trying to prevent the assassination, in fact. Just goes to show how far through the looking glass we get in pursuit of the truth. Not only is Oswald not the villain, bent on murdering the president, he's the hero of the story.