Israeli involvement in 9/11 and spying on the U.S.

[Barney]

I can think of at least three reasons why Pres. Clinton was exposed to the impeachment proceedings;1. Jewess Monica Lewinski giving him head under the Oval Office desk, while talking to a US Senator, known otherwise,as multi-tasking in the work world.2. Embarrasing his wife, Hillary Rodham over White Water, and Vince Foster, to mass media torment, when she has and had White House aspirations. Her present jobs have been to gain information and experiences.Hillary was raised by a Jew step-father, which tells one all they really need to know about her and her mother.3. Clinton was under fire to fully pardon Jewish spymaster, Jonathan Pollard, for a spy network covering theactivities of the US Navy fleet operations, in a real time basis.

[Robert Wagner]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I’m not an octopus theorist. On the contrary, I suspect that I'm striking a nerve with you about the whole Israeli issue. You struck a nerve with the bigotry issue. I try to judge people as individuals rather than stereotypes. When I worked for a German company, I learned Jews can be as bigoted as their opponents. Every week I had to deal with false claim legal harassment against the company solely because it was German. I found it ignoble to see former victims acting like their persecutors when the shoe was on the other foot. But I've known Jews, especially Russian, who were hard working and fair minded. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: I never said that Zionists were behind everything. I suspect that they control the biggest lobby in the US, AIPAC and that they were involved in 9/11. You seem to miss that little fact. I've seen all these called the biggest lobby: health care, labor, National Rifle Association, tobacco industry, education, Sierra Club, Jews, manufacturing, communications, lawyers and defense contractors. Come on, they can't all be the biggest. The correct answer is none of the above, it's the finance industry. They spend $4B per year, yielding a $700B bailout. Calculating ROI is left as an exercise for the student. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:The Fox report was in 2002. Morningstar financials don't go back that far. EDGAR does. Here you go:http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 8e6vk.txtI don’t know where you came up with that document. The Amdocs information came from a Fox News report on Israeli spying on the US. You need to learn the difference between primary and secondary sources, because the latter are distorted by omission bias or, in this case, simply incorrect. My citation was primary; yours was secondary. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Okay. So, you don't doubt the "dancing Israelis" story, and I also think you said that you don't doubt the story about certain employees of Odigo (the Israeli instant message service) having foreknowledge. What about Joseph Cohen? He’s the OTHER supposed convert to Islam who calls himself Jousef Al Kattab or something like that. He just happens to be Jewish too. Interesting that you don’t comment on him. What are the chances that both of the supposed American converts to a militant version of Islam are also both Jewish?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341811,00.htmlThose "dancing Israelis" were detained by the FBI for almost two months before they were released to Israel and then appeared on an Israeli talk show. Interesting that you left that part out. I didn't comment because all are irrelevant to the question of who sponsored 9/11. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:Non-assassination events such as Lavon and USS Liberty are off topic, unless you support the logical fallacies of hasty generalization and well poisoning. The Lavon affair is very relevant because it was all about how an Israeli spy ring was busted up and arrested for planting bombs in U.S. buildings in Egypt and then leaving behind false evidence that Arabs did it. So, it’s VERY relevant. The USS Liberty attack is also very relevant because it’s about the Israelis attacking a U.S. intelligence ship that was in international water. The evidence appears that they were going to try and make it look like Arabs did that too, but they didn’t get away with it. So, these two issues are very relevant. The Liberty was attacked by planes and torpedo boats flying the Israeli flag. How did they try to pin it on Arabs?The Lavon Affair, which occurred during the 1950s, was a failed false flag operation. If it shows Israel cannot be trusted 50 years later, the same goes for the US dozens of times over. I mentioned a test run for Northwoods I worked on, a year before the proposal was offered. If it had succeeded, the American people would have been duped (again), Castro would have been defeated and JFK probably wouldn't have been assassinated. Ironically, CIA worked hard to keep the keep Kennedy from finding out about it.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Robert Wagner wrote:You struck a nerve with the bigotry issue. I try to judge people as individuals rather than stereotypes. When I worked for a German company, I learned Jews can be as bigoted as their opponents. Every week I had to deal with false claim legal harassment against the company solely because it was German. I found it ignoble to see former victims acting like their persecutors when the shoe was on the other foot. But I've known Jews, especially Russian, who were hard working and fair minded. Bigotry issue? That's according to you. I never said that Jewish people in general were bad. I'm talking about an organized crime network that appears to be largely Israeli or Zionist based. I've said that from the beginning in this very topic. Have you read it? It doesn't look like it. You can blow your own horn about how fair minded you are. I suspect that if I said Italians were behind 9/11, you wouldn't have a problem. Who's the bigot here? I've known, and still know Jewish people who are very nice people. What's your point? LOLI also never said that Zionists were behind everything. I suspect that they control the biggest lobby in the US, AIPAC, and that they were involved in 9/11. You seem to miss that little fact. According to the article below, AIPAC is only the SECOND most influential lobby. Woops! My bad. LOLhttp://www.washington-report.org/backissues/01 ... .htmRobert Wagner wrote:I've seen all these called the biggest lobby: health care, labor, National Rifle Association, tobacco industry, education, Sierra Club, Jews, manufacturing, communications, lawyers and defense contractors. Come on, they can't all be the biggest. The correct answer is none of the above, it's the finance industry. They spend $4B per year, yielding a $700B bailout. Calculating ROI is left as an exercise for the student. I don't know what you've seen regarding these other lobbies. I still maintain that AIPAC is one of the biggest and most influential, if not THE biggest. Robert Wagner wrote:You need to learn the difference between primary and secondary sources, because the latter are distorted by omission bias or, in this case, simply incorrect. My citation was primary; yours was secondary. I already know the difference, and I'll find out where Fox News got that information about Amdocs. I wrote to you:" Okay. So, you don't doubt the "dancing Israelis" story, and I also think you said that you don't doubt the story about certain employees of Odigo (the Israeli instant message service) having foreknowledge. What about Joseph Cohen? He’s the OTHER supposed convert to Islam who calls himself Jousef Al Kattab or something like that. He just happens to be Jewish too. Interesting that you don’t comment on him. What are the chances that both of the supposed American converts to a militant version of Islam are also both Jewish?http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341811,00.htmlThose "dancing Israelis" were detained by the FBI for almost two months before they were released to Israel and then appeared on an Israeli talk show. Interesting that you left that part out."Robert Wagner wrote:I didn't comment because all are irrelevant to the question of who sponsored 9/11. How do you deem the information irrelevant? My colleagues and I can clearly see a pattern. It seems that you're simply choosing to describe the information above as irrelevant. What about the Israeli shipping company that moved out of the WTC towers just days before, breaking their lease and also costing them roughly $50,000 in broken lease fees? I think the company was called Zim. Is that just another coincidence? What about the lease holder of the WTC, Larry Silverstein, who insured the buildings for terrorist attacks just weeks before and then tried to sue for double the money claiming that the two planes constituted two separate terrorist incidents? Silverstein was facing to lose lots of money because those buildings needed to be retrofitted because they still had asbestos in them. Robert Wagner wrote:The Liberty was attacked by planes and torpedo boats flying the Israeli flag. How did they try to pin it on Arabs? Pinning it on Arabs might be leap on my part. There is no question that those planes and torpedo boats were Israeli, and there is no question that they knew they were trying to sink an American ship. This is where I make my leap. I feel that if they had succeeded in sinking that ship and killing everyone aboard, they could have claimed that they didn't do it at all. Robert Wagner wrote:The Lavon Affair, which occurred during the 1950s, was a failed false flag operation. If it shows Israel cannot be trusted 50 years later, the same goes for the US dozens of times over. I mentioned a test run for Northwoods I worked on, a year before the proposal was offered. If it had succeeded, the American people would have been duped (again), Castro would have been defeated and JFK probably wouldn't have been assassinated. Ironically, CIA worked hard to keep the keep Kennedy from finding out about it.I'll agree that Israel cannot be trusted, period. You haven't disappointed me. Now, in addition to having worked at Amdocs and having been at the Ambassador Hotel on the night RFK was killed, you're also saying that you worked on a "test run" for operation Northwoods? Really? You're starting to remind me of all those Santas that I used to see when I was a kid in every shopping mall. No matter where we went, there he was again. Are you kidding, or are you for real?

[Robert Wagner]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:So, in your eyes, you say that the CIA probably knew that RFK was going to be shot and just let it happen but that it's okay because they had no "Good Samaritan" obligation? That's a little strange, don't you think? Spooks do it all the time. They justify it to themselves by saying we hired them to fight dirty, like the other side. In this case, they wanted RFK dead. It was less risky to let Sirhan do it than to do it themselves. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote: I worked at a Los Angeles credit card company in 1968, at Amdocs in 2007. What's the pattern? That someone can hold two jobs in a lifetime? The pattern is that you claim to have been in key places and positions. I'm almost expecting you to say that you were in Dealy Plaza on November 22, 1963 or that you were at ground zero on 9/11. That's the pattern I'm talking about. I lived in Dallas (Irving) eight years: 1972-80. I was in Los Angeles in 63. I was in Watts during the riots.I was in Albany NY on 9/11. My granddaughter was in WTC South. She got out after the first plane hit, ignored instructions to go back to work. I knew Accenture people who died.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:So, in your eyes, you say that the CIA probably knew that RFK was going to be shot and just let it happen but that it's okay because they had no "Good Samaritan" obligation? That's a little strange, don't you think? Spooks do it all the time. They justify it to themselves by saying we hired them to fight dirty, like the other side. In this case, they wanted RFK dead. It was less risky to let Sirhan do it than to do it themselves. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote: I worked at a Los Angeles credit card company in 1968, at Amdocs in 2007. What's the pattern? That someone can hold two jobs in a lifetime? The pattern is that you claim to have been in key places and positions. I'm almost expecting you to say that you were in Dealy Plaza on November 22, 1963 or that you were at ground zero on 9/11. That's the pattern I'm talking about. I lived in Dallas (Irving) eight years: 1972-80. I was in Los Angeles in 63. I was in Watts during the riots.I was in Albany NY on 9/11. My granddaughter was in WTC South. She got out after the first plane hit, ignored instructions to go back to work. I knew Accenture people who died.I get it. According to you, the CIA or CIA-sponsored entities, didn't kill RFK, they just KNEW about it and let it happen. Regarding where you've been, all I can say is "wow." You're quite the traveler. Nothing about where you've been helps to strengthen what you're saying.I happen to be friends with one of the 9/11 first responders. So what?You did, however, say something interesting. You said that it's not the lobbies but the financiers. Did I get that right? I do agree there. Who are they? What's their affiliation or ethnic affiliation? Who, for example, are the CEO's of the companies that got bailout money? What are their names?While you're answering that, think about the affiliation or ethnicity of the people who basically run the media in the U.S.You can call it bigotry. I call it facts.Here's a video clip called "Do Jews Control The Media? - The L.A. Times Says Yes!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVmiAR5nvJE

[Robert Wagner]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I also never said that Zionists were behind everything. I suspect that they control the biggest lobby in the US, AIPAC, and that they were involved in 9/11. You seem to miss that little fact. According to the article below, AIPAC is only the SECOND most influential lobby. Woops! My bad. LOLhttp://www.washington-report.org/backissues/01 ... 65.htmYour source is not even close. Opensecrets.org is the definitive source for lobbying information. Pro-Israel lobbies are at:http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/i ... nd=Q05Look here to see it ranks #24 among interest "industries."http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.phpClick Heavy Hitters to see it dwarfed by individual contributors such as AT&T spending $45M.Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:You need to learn the difference between primary and secondary sources, because the latter are distorted by omission bias or, in this case, simply incorrect. My citation was primary; yours was secondary. I already know the difference, and I'll find out where Fox News got that information about Amdocs.They found a tiny market segment that's government subsidized and wrote their copy to give the impression a $3B publicly owned company is part of a government cabal. They know their audience isn't sophisticated enough to read an annual financial statement. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: What about the lease holder of the WTC, Larry Silverstein, who insured the buildings for terrorist attacks just weeks before and then tried to sue for double the money claiming that the two planes constituted two separate terrorist incidents? Silverstein was facing to lose lots of money because those buildings needed to be retrofitted because they still had asbestos in them. "Hello, Mossad? This is Larry in New York. Listen, I've got this building that needs to be struck by Jewish Lightning for insurance money, but the damned thing is all steel. Do you have any way to torch it? .. Brilliant! I didn't think of airplanes. Maybe I can collect double indemnity for travel accident."Your drinking buddies must have been pretty far in the bag when they write this one. I picture it as Cicero at 11PM, the Cubs won earlier, karaoke singer doing Dashboard Lights, hysterical laughter interrupted by Blue Line trains to and from Forest Park. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: I suspect that if I said Italians were behind 9/11, you wouldn't have a problem. I wouldn't believe you. It was too well organized.HEAVEN is where:The police are BritishThe chefs ItalianThe mechanics are GermanThe lovers are Frenchand it's all organized by the SwissHELL is where:The police are GermanThe chefs are BritishThe mechanics are FrenchThe lovers are Swissand it's all organized by the Italians!!Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:The Liberty was attacked by planes and torpedo boats flying the Israeli flag. How did they try to pin it on Arabs? Pinning it on Arabs might be leap on my part. There is no question that those planes and torpedo boats were Israeli, and there is no question that they knew they were trying to sink an American ship. This is where I make my leap. I feel that if they had succeeded in sinking that ship and killing everyone aboard, they could have claimed that they didn't do it at all.It was a sigint ship crammed full of communication equipment. Naval technology has improved since Pirates of the Caribbean. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:The Lavon Affair, which occurred during the 1950s, was a failed false flag operation. If it shows Israel cannot be trusted 50 years later, the same goes for the US dozens of times over. I mentioned a test run for Northwoods I worked on, a year before the proposal was offered. If it had succeeded, the American people would have been duped (again), Castro would have been defeated and JFK probably wouldn't have been assassinated. Ironically, CIA worked hard to keep the keep Kennedy from finding out about it.I'll agree that Israel cannot be trusted, period. You haven't disappointed me. Now, in addition to having worked at Amdocs and having been at the Ambassador Hotel on the night RFK was killed, you're also saying that you worked on a "test run" for operation Northwoods? Really? You're starting to remind me of all those Santas that I used to see when I was a kid in every shopping mall. No matter where we went, there he was again. Are you kidding, or are you for real?I joined the forum because I thought black ops in Cuba were relevant to the JFK assassination. Now I see you embrace Fox News, don't know where to find facts and make fun of eye witnesses, Are you seeking truth or validation? Hint: one is deductive and the other is inductive.

[Robert Wagner]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I get it. According to you, the CIA or CIA-sponsored entities, didn't kill RFK, they just KNEW about it and let it happen. The story didn't come from me, it came from reality. The evidence says they were watching, but didn't do anything. We can only speculate on whya. They were big fans of RFK.b. Just finished eating at the Brown Derby and wandered over. c. Staying at hotel. Came down to complain about noise.d. They knew Sirhan would assassinate RFK.Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:You did, however, say something interesting. You said that it's not the lobbies but the financiers. Did I get that right? I do agree there. Who are they? What's their affiliation or ethnic affiliation? Who, for example, are the CEO's of the companies that got bailout money? What are their names?No, I said the financial industry has the largest lobby, at least some years, generally non-election years. I know more about Chicago (commodities) than New York (stocks) because I used to be an options trader on the CBOE. Chicago had two exchanges that were run by two nationalities. Irish ran the Board Of Trade (CBT); Italians ran the Mercantile Exchange (CME). Now they're merged into one organization, although there are still two buildings. It appears the Italians won, although the CEO is Irish. Big New York stock brokerage houses are generally run by Old Money types.You're asking about Investment Banks that received, or not, bailout money. The US banks were:JPMorgan Chase, CEO James Dimon from NY, Greek ancestry (was David Rockefeller in the 1980s)Citigroup, CEO Vikram Pandit from India (was John Reed in the 1980s)Goldman Sachs, CEO Lloyd Blankfein, New York JewBank of America, CEO Brian Moynahan from OhioBear Stearns, bankrupt, CEO Alan Schwartz, New York JewWachovia, acquired, CEO G. Kennedy Thompson from NC?Netbank, bankrupt, CEO Steven F. Herbert from AtlantaMerrill Lynch, acquired, CEO Stanley O'Neal from Atlanta, blackWashington Mutual Bank, bankrupt, CEO Kerry Killinger from IowaLehman Brothers, bankrupt, CEO Bart McDade from Michigan (no bailout money)Summary: 20% JewsPasquale DiFabrizio wrote:While you're answering that, think about the affiliation or ethnicity of the people who basically run the media in the U.S.You can call it bigotry. I call it facts.Here's a video clip called "Do Jews Control The Media? - The L.A. Times Says Yes!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVmiAR5nvJEEveryone living in Los Angeles, as you do and I did, knows the movie industry is run by Jews. They're strong but not as dominant in TV and print media. For instance non-Jews run New York Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post, New Yorker magazine, Wall Street Journal and USA Today. I seldom watch TV and movies. Does someone hold a gun to your head? IMO, a nation that gets its opinions from movies and TV has already lost the war; it's now wasting time with games until the cleanup crew arrives to pull the plug. I don't fault the movie industry for giving fools what they want; I fault the education industry for failing to teach, if nothing else, critical thinking. The rest of the world thinks Americans are fools who don't deserve the share of money we have. They're right. The weakness didn't come from outside; we did it to ourselves. Here's a thought for you to ponder. The world's largest economy for 19 or the last 20 centuries has been China, not Europe.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Robert Wagner wrote:Your source is not even close. Opensecrets.org is the definitive source for lobbying information. Pro-Israel lobbies are at:http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/i ... nd=Q05Look here to see it ranks #24 among interest "industries."http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.phpClick Heavy Hitters to see it dwarfed by individual contributors such as AT&T spending $45M. Opensecrets.org is the definitive source for YOU. So, be happy with it. It's interesting how you're trying to derail the discussion about the facts and evidence regarding Israeli involvement in 9 /11. Robert Wagner wrote:They found a tiny market segment that's government subsidized and wrote their copy to give the impression a $3B publicly owned company is part of a government cabal. They know their audience isn't sophisticated enough to read an annual financial statement. Why don't you explain it to us? What are you talking about? Have you been drinking? Robert Wagner wrote:"Hello, Mossad? This is Larry in New York. Listen, I've got this building that needs to be struck by Jewish Lightning for insurance money, but the damned thing is all steel. Do you have any way to torch it? .. Brilliant! I didn't think of airplanes. Maybe I can collect double indemnity for travel accident."Your drinking buddies must have been pretty far in the bag when they write this one. I picture it as Cicero at 11PM, the Cubs won earlier, karaoke singer doing Dashboard Lights, hysterical laughter interrupted by Blue Line trains to and from Forest Park. My drinking buddies? Who are my drinking buddies? Maybe you know who my buddies are? The way the evidence looks to me is that those buildings needed to be retrofitted because of the asbestos in them. Estimates on the cost that I've heard to retrofit those twin towers was about 1 billion. I suspect that the event, 9/11, was a mutually beneficial arrangement. Silverstein cooperated and got what he wanted, Israel and the defense industry got what THEY wanted. Two different military engagements over the past ten years is really good money for the defense industry, don't you think? Then I said, in response to you calling me a bigot, that if I said Italians were involved, you probably wouldn't have a problem. You said: Robert Wagner wrote:I wouldn't believe you. It was too well organized. Who is the bigot? For the rest of you, I want you to take a good look at how this man is talking about an ethnic group, Italians in general. You'd never say that in person, and you know it. You also just CONTRADICTED yourself. You said in an earlier post in this topic that I'm acting or talking like bigot because I'm presenting and talking about evidence that Israeli's and Zionists were behind 9/11. Then you, in all your glory, go and insult Italians. Who is the racist? You are. Who is the bigot? You are. Badda bing! LOL Robert Wagner wrote:HEAVEN is where:The police are BritishThe chefs ItalianThe mechanics are GermanThe lovers are Frenchand it's all organized by the SwissHELL is where:The police are GermanThe chefs are BritishThe mechanics are FrenchThe lovers are Swissand it's all organized by the Italians!! For the rest of you reading this, this is the same person who accused me of being a bigot. He insults Italians and whoever else as an ethnic group, and even has his own version of hell and heaven based on ethnic classification. It looks like I really struck a nerve with you, don't you think? You need to try harder than that. Also, why aren't Jewish people or Israelis mentioned in your little joke above? I find that very interesting. Robert Wagner wrote:It was a sigint ship crammed full of communication equipment. Naval technology has improved since Pirates of the Caribbean. What are you talking about? All I said was that the Israeli's KNEW they were attacking an American ship. It's been proven already. There is no mistaking the intent of the Israelis when they tried to kill everyone aboard the USS Liberty. Robert Wagner wrote:I joined the forum because I thought black ops in Cuba were relevant to the JFK assassination. Now I see you embrace Fox News, don't know where to find facts and make fun of eye witnesses, Are you seeking truth or validation? Hint: one is deductive and the other is inductive.Here's hint for you, Robert Wagner. You're trying to hard. I don't embrace Fox news. Their report on Israeli spying on the U.S. just happened to be a special report that they did a few years ago and after 9/11. Fox News only seemed to go as far as saying that the Israeli's only may have had advanced knowledge of the event. How do you deduce or induce (LOL) from this that I "embrace" Fox news? LOLSo, what I can see from your responses is that the only piece of evidence that you can refute pertains to AMDOCS. All the other evidence presented you haven't refuted at all. You just say it's not relevant or whatever.Try again, and this time, try being nice.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Robert Wagner wrote:The story didn't come from me, it came from reality. The evidence says they were watching, but didn't do anything. We can only speculate on whya. They were big fans of RFK.b. Just finished eating at the Brown Derby and wandered over. c. Staying at hotel. Came down to complain about noise.d. They knew Sirhan would assassinate RFK.So, you think that the CIA had people who were there, who may have known that RFK was going to be assassinated and just didn't do anything to stop and yet they didn't have anything to do with it? Robert Wagner wrote:Everyone living in Los Angeles, as you do and I did, knows the movie industry is run by Jews. They're strong but not as dominant in TV and print media. For instance non-Jews run New York Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post, New Yorker magazine, Wall Street Journal and USA Today. The Jews aren't as dominant in TV? Are you kidding? LOL Robert Wagner wrote:I don't fault the movie industry for giving fools what they want; I fault the education industry for failing to teach, if nothing else, critical thinking. The rest of the world thinks Americans are fools who don't deserve the share of money we have. They're right. The weakness didn't come from outside; we did it to ourselves. You're contradicting yourself. Are you blaming the Americans who were not educated properly or are you blaming the people and institutions who are supposed to educate people here? I have a fundamental loyalty to the people of the United States. It's my home. I don't blame the people, like you seem to do, for not being educated enough. That's an arrogant attitude to have. I would never say something like what you said because it's wrong. If the children aren't being taught critical thinking skills, I'd blame the people teaching them. If they're being taught to glorify money and flash, I would blame the Zionist-controlled media for that too. Robert Wagner wrote:Here's a thought for you to ponder. The world's largest economy for 19 or the last 20 centuries has been China, not Europe.Here's a thought for you to ponder. If you think Americans deserve the bad things happening to them, why don't you just leave the country and go live in China or Israel or wherever? You said above that Americans are "fools who don't deserve the share of money we have." Are you kidding? That's some attitude to have. The media and certain factions in our government have lied to us, and continue to lie to us and mislead us. Why is it our fault? People like me try to get the truth out, and it seems that people like you think you're better and actually try to muddy the waters. You're sounding more and more like one of "them" than one of us. One thing seems clear to me. You're not a patriot. You've lost yourself.

[kenmurray]

Speaking of Sirhan, the lone assassin of RFK , he had time to reload his 8 round revolver to fire additional rounds into the ceiling , even though it didn't matter that 300lb Rosey Grier and others were all over him.