How to convince a non-believer

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

ThomZajac wrote:The shirt does prove, however, that Jerry Ford was lying through his teeth when he moved up the back wound five inches in the pursuit of being "more precise."That shirt shows more than just the location of the bullet hole (which matches the location of the same bullet hole in the jacket).Look at the blood stain. The majority of it is on the LEFT side, and the stain shows that the source of that blood came from ABOVE the shoulder. It's a lot of blood, and particularly on the LEFT shoulder. I can't see how all that blood got concentrated on the left side of the shirt, flowing down, if the back of JFK's head wasn't blasted out. Also, regarding the location of the bullet hole in the shirt that matches the location of the bullet hole in the jacket, the ONLY thing that anybody could argue was that the jacket and shirt were BOTH riding up or bunched up. That argument gets completely thwarted if you just look at pictures of JFK riding in the car before the shots. His jacket is not bunched up at all.

[ChristophMessner]

Well, Pasquale, I think, JFK's jacket was bunched up a little and I think, theoretically it might have been possible that if the shooter was pretty low, let's say 2nd or 3rd floor DalTex, then this back entrance hole might lead towards the throat wound location. But I don't think Conally was hit before Z224 already, because he just started his turnaround then and was completely without sign of any push from behind or wrist-smash till much later. The naming of that alleged single bullet "magic" tells it all. There is no magic and Arlen Specter used this word in full conscious of that what the power elite on top of the pyramid of power decides or suffers has to be made look like magic, so that the dumb people will follow. We live now in an age, in which this "dumb" people awake and the old pyramidal totalitarian hierarchic leadership concepts start to crash and the "leaders" of today can't help and desparately invent more and more abstruse theories to rescue their privileges. But on the other hand I can understand that to a billionaire it must really look magic how all these "dumb serfs" let exploit themselves to make him a billionaire! Or to the pope it must look like magic, that once he raises his hands at the window, a million people applaude, just because they still need this kind of projection figure of maximum importantness to keep their belief. Also to James Files, it must look like magic to him, how easy it is to kill a president or to tell stories people want to hear. Chrishttp://kentroversypapers.blogspot.com/2007/06/dealey-plaza-esoteric-freemasonic.html

[bob franklin]

That shirt shows more than just the location of the bullet hole (which matches the location of the same bullet hole in the jacket).Look at the blood stain. The majority of it is on the LEFT side, and the stain shows that the source of that blood came from ABOVE the shoulder. It's a lot of blood, and particularly on the LEFT shoulder. I can't see how all that blood got concentrated on the left side of the shirt, flowing down, if the back of JFK's head wasn't blasted out.Also, regarding the location of the bullet hole in the shirt that matches the location of the bullet hole in the jacket, the ONLY thing that anybody could argue was that the jacket and shirt were BOTH riding up or bunched up. That argument gets completely thwarted if you just look at pictures of JFK riding in the car before the shots. His jacket is not bunched up at all. Yup. also remember the LN rallying phrase "slumped forward". As you noted, blood doesn't flow upward. There goes that "laying prone" argument Thom's lawyer friend might use. LN'ers are bound by the official version of events. JFK was either slumped forward or lying prone. They can't have it both ways.

[Bob]

The funny thing about the lone nut crowd is that they believe stuff that to most observers is virtually impossible. The conspiracy theorist crowd is based on much more fact than conjecture. Yet, the MSM plays up to the LN crap. Why? Because they cuddle up in bed with each other, and then leave their money on the night stand just like in another "profession".

[ThomZajac]

Bob Franklin wrote:"Yup. also remember the LN rallying phrase "slumped forward". As you noted, blood doesn't flow upward. There goes that "laying prone" argument Thom's lawyer friend might use."I realize these points are dicey, and ultimately we are all more or less on the same page as to what actually happened, but we do differ on what is conclusive evidence and what is not. Bob, I think you may have misunderstood the laying prone comment; it referred to the ride to Parkland, while he lay lifeless next to his wife. HIs head could very well been higher than shoulder, and the blood could have flowed from a head wound to the left shoulder. Again, I'm not saying that's what did happen, only that a lone nutter could somewhat reasonably claim that is how the blood got there.Pasquale, I recent took an engineer to see Richard Gage's (a 911 truther, architect) presentation on the fall of the three towers. Again, I am in your camp as to what actually happened, but conclusive proof is not as simple as you might think. This engineer, for example, was convinced that Building 7 was brought down by explosives (placed in the building by authorities AFTER the building had been damaged by falling debris and fire), but that the Twin Towers came down due to catastrophic failures caused by jet impact, and the subsequent fire made very hot by massive amounts of jet fuel. He argues that the towers did NOT fall at free fall speeds, but NEARLY free fall speeds. He is a smart guy, and he is sincere in his viewpoint. I also think he is wrong, of course. but my point is that what may appear to be an open and shut case to us may not be to others.I have a great deal of respect for what's been posted on this thread, and the last thing I want to do is argue things point by point from the perspective of the lone nutters. I was just trying to shine some light onto how they think. Katisha is trying to come up with the best way to convince a lone nutter that a conspiracy killed JFK, and frankly, I don't think her odds are very good that she will for the reasons I've mentioned; the attempt can very much be like trying to take the curl out of a pig's tail.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

ChristophMessner wrote:Well, Pasquale, I think, JFK's jacket was bunched up a little and I think, theoretically it might have been possible that if the shooter was pretty low, let's say 2nd or 3rd floor DalTex, then this back entrance hole might lead towards the throat wound location.Very interesting point, Christoph. Actually, if you compare, even on your own body, for example, a spot five inches below the bottom of the back of the neck, it does line up with the throat wound, but only on a very flat trajectory...as in shooting from as low as the first floor of a building. I'm having problems with a shot from the second floor hitting JFK in the back, five inches below the neck and coming out his throat because the trajectory is downward. Also you have the FBI report by agents Sibert and O'Neil saying that the back wound only went in the back a couple of inches.Also, try not to buy into the theory of the jacket and shirt bunching up. Sport coats and suit jackets usually have a silky lining to them. Even if the jacket buched up a little, it wouldn't bring the shirt with it in the exact same way. Plus, look at how low the bullet hole is, then look at pictures of JFK sitting in the car. His jacket isn't bunched up at all. The attached picture has two images on it. The left one is the bogus posture as created with computer graphics by Dale Myers, but the picture on the right is JFK sitting in the car before the shots. Note the lack of bunching up of the jacket.

[ThomZajac]

I'm pretty certain that the shot that hit JFK in the back did not exit. I'll have to look it up again, but somewhere there is record of the receipt of that bullet (having fallen out, never to be seen again). Also, I believe at the autopsy someone may have probed that wound and felt the bullet lodged inside.I bet Florida Bob knows all about this-

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

ThomZajac wrote:I'm pretty certain that the shot that hit JFK in the back did not exit. I'll have to look it up again, but somewhere there is record of the receipt of that bullet (having fallen out, never to be seen again). Also, I believe at the autopsy someone may have probed that wound and felt the bullet lodged inside.I bet Florida Bob knows all about this-Actually, I think that they couldn't find a bullet in there, which caused one of the FBI agents (I can't remember if it was Sibert or O'Neil) to actually call FBI forensics to discuss it with them. Didn't Zack Shelton say something to that effect? I'm pretty sure that the Bethesda doctors didn't find a bullet in that back wound.

[ChristophMessner]

Some doctors probed the back wound and confirmed that it did not go through and that there was no bullet. The autopsy photo of the back wound shows that it is less than five inches, let's say two inches. But the tracheotomy was done unprofessionnally like cutting JFK another time to death. Probably they wanted to hide the throat wound. Strange that murdered Pitzer did not give his film to somebody else earlier.

[Brian White]

Katisha- all you have to do is ask someone to read James Files' confessionand review the rest of this website- if that doesn't convince them, forget it.None are so blind as they who won't see-write them off as being sufferersof craniorectal fusion syndrome-meaning,their head is up their ass!Brian.