Who Decided?

[Kirk]

Snow,You are probably right, but we still have to play it out.Jsnow915 wrote:Kirk...I dont think we'll ever see the truth in our lifetime(I hope I'm wrong) ...Lofty,you have to add Rockefeller into big oil and banking...and remember..."and to the "Republic" for which it stands"...not "democracy".

[ThomZajac]

Michael Calder wrote:David Rockefeller decided to remove JFK by extra legal means and went to Allen Dulles to see if he concurred. He did. Allen Dulles is fired by JFK in Sept '62 and the plot is given to Richard Helms, DDP at CIA. Helms is the architect. Helms later murders RFK using his own creation, MKULTRA. Richard Helms is fired in 1973 by President Nixon yet Ford and Reagan have attempts on their lives. This is David Rockefeller once again using CIA to put his brother, the vice president into the oval office and later George Bush, the VP of President Reagan. It also means that CIA was co-opted by the economic elite and has been used ever since as it's own private security firm. Will CIA once again be used to strikedown a president under orders of the economic elite. What do you think? http://www.jfkcia.comThis answer makes a great deal of sense to me. The CIA certainly didn't feel beholden to the wishes of the president and congress, and there were, in my opinion, powerful money people such as Rockefeller, who saw the CIA as a great way to get things done. Once the official leader(s) of the CIA and these unofficial (money) leaders of the CIA agreed on removing the president, JFK's fate was sealed.Johnson and Hoover quickly came on board and later controled the investigations, and the same CIA apparatus used to wage war against Cuba and attempt to assassinate Castro was the principle arm in the actual execution itself.While many involved in the plot were all too happy to be a part, I also think a pre-assassination cover story was used to win over the less rabid; namely that JFK was a huge security risk, sleeping with a Soviet Spy (among other things) while taking pain-killing drugs and who know what else.Dulles and David Rockefeller. I think I'm with you!

[Bob]

Michael Calder wrote:David Rockefeller decided to remove JFK by extra legal means and went to Allen Dulles to see if he concurred. He did. Allen Dulles is fired by JFK in Sept '62 and the plot is given to Richard Helms, DDP at CIA. Helms is the architect. Helms later murders RFK using his own creation, MKULTRA. Richard Helms is fired in 1973 by President Nixon yet Ford and Reagan have attempts on their lives. This is David Rockefeller once again using CIA to put his brother, the vice president into the oval office and later George Bush, the VP of President Reagan. It also means that CIA was co-opted by the economic elite and has been used ever since as it's own private security firm. Will CIA once again be used to strikedown a president under orders of the economic elite. What do you think? http://www.jfkcia.comThere is no doubt that Rockefeller was involved at some point in this. Probably close to the beginning. Michael brings up Helms, who doesn't get the notoriety he deserves like his CIA brethren did in this period (the JFK assassination). Michael also raises an excellent point about the co-opts between the CIA and economic elite. Now speaking about President Obama, and the threat of the CIA towards him, know this...Obama has kept alive the wars which the CIA supports in Afghanistan and Iraq, stopped torture prosecution against the CIA and has gone out of his way to protect Wall Street. Wayne Madsen also recently inferred that Obama was once a CIA operative.

[ThomZajac]

I can believe that Obama was once a CIA operative. I believe Bill Clinton was. And I believe Hillary IS. Of course George HW was, and it follows that Junior was part of the family.In essence, there is a form of American government ABOVE what we are allowed to see- the workings of representational democracy that millions accept as the top. In 1963 this secret/shadowy government demonstrated to all who were close enough to understand that a new system was now in place- and if you wanted to be a big player in the visible government it would behoove you to do the bidding for the invisible one.

[Phil Dragoo]

Dulles & Dulles ("We Run the World") and their trusted team, Helms, Phillips, Angleton.Strike One: Bay of Pigs; Strike Two: Cuban Missile Crisis; Strike Three: NSAM 263.Here is a ten minute sketch of Johnson's hand at the table: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents ... v232Please note the Eliot Janeway speaking was LBJ's financial advisor; that Janeway made the rounds of Boston and New York financial houses Summer '63 hissing what a dangerous man this Kennedy was.Remember Kennedy's tentative step to abolish the Federal Reserve and shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces.Dulles, Cabell, Bissell et al were fired.Would Rockefeller speak on behalf of the threatened Federal Reserve.What of Johnson who had great ambition, no stranger to force, much legal trouble, and would be dropped from the ticket.Hoover, who ran the "investigation" for the Commission (and was fed info by future President Ford), would have been denied waiver of mandatory retirement after re-election.Marcello was in a courtroom Friday November 22 thanks to the dog's tail. Sharing the animosity for the president with Hoffa, Giancana, Roselli and their associates including Mr. James Files.Did Hussein serve Brzezinski. Did Brzezinski coauthor with Robert Gates the CFR paper "Iran: Time for a New Approach" (2004). Was the 1981 Pakistan trip concealed by Brennan's Analysis Corp. passport file service as professional courtesy.Reed depicts a bunker wherein Bill Clinton and Oliver North sing cover of Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot fighting in the captain's tower.There will be meetings with Medvedev 15 Nov; Hu Jintao 16 Nov; Wen Jiabao 18 Nov. Will the Afghan drug trade agreement dictate the final order of battle.

[Bob]

ThomZajac wrote:I can believe that Obama was once a CIA operative. I believe Bill Clinton was. And I believe Hillary IS. Of course George HW was, and it follows that Junior was part of the family.In essence, there is a form of American government ABOVE what we are allowed to see- the workings of representational democracy that millions accept as the top. In 1963 this secret/shadowy government demonstrated to all who were close enough to understand that a new system was now in place- and if you wanted to be a big player in the visible government it would behoove you to do the bidding for the invisible one.I think you are right Thom. The Clintons are tied to the hip to Poppy and the CIA because of all the drug running that went through Mena when Slick Willie was Governor of Arkansas. As Secretary of State, Hillary can make sure the CIA will get or continue their wars and the profits that go with it, either via war profiteering, regime changing or drugs...or all three. It's ironic fighting in Afghanistan, with all the "Poppy's" over there. Plus, I think you are right about Dumbya Bu$h as well. Like his father before him, he was supposedly part of companies that were for the most part failures. I think it is pretty obvious that they were just fronts. Dumbya also had a hand in the JFK assassination cover up. Look at this from Wim's section on Poppy Bu$h...During the preparations of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, pressure is applied to Texan Bill Lord not to testify for the committee. Bill Lord was a fellow marine and roommate of Lee Harvey Oswald on a ship voyage to France. Lord expresses his concern in a letter to president Carter. He writes that Oswald was connected to the FBI and CIA and concludes that the CIA and the FBI are complicit in JFK's death and the coup d'etat that occurred on 11/22/1963. He also states that one of the Midland, TX politicians applying pressure to him, was Mr. George W. Bush junior . This letter to President Carter was declassified some years ago. Here's a fragment:One of the parties which has blitzed me with telephone calls trying to persuade me to tell them what I know about Oswald, is engaged in a very costly project which allows them to locate, interview, monitor, and influence every single available person who ever knew Lee Oswald--and this, just in advance of the new governmental investigation by the house select committee on Assassinations. I finally consented, not to grant an interview, but to allow the publication's representative to explain their project to me in person. After a lunch interview with this researcher, I was told that if I had refused even to meet with him, pressure was in the offing from two Midland men: Mr. Jim Allison, publisher of the ultra-conservative Reporter-Telegram, my employer (out of necessity, and for the moment!), and Mr. George Bush, Jr. ... Shortly thereafter, my mother discovered that her telephone had been tampered with. The casing around the dialing aparatus had been pulled out about one-half inch... we cannot doubt that someone entered the house at a time when I was at work and my mother was away; she returned to the house, however, at an unaccustomed time... I have been in anguish for weeks, Mr. President, trying my best to laugh at my apprehensions and to see these events as fortuitous ones... Speaking as the man who spent more than two weeks in the same ship's cabin with Lee Oswald at the time of his 1959 "defection", and speaking as a man who has been the subject of the above.

[Bob]

Phil Dragoo wrote:Dulles & Dulles ("We Run the World") and their trusted team, Helms, Phillips, Angleton.Strike One: Bay of Pigs; Strike Two: Cuban Missile Crisis; Strike Three: NSAM 263.Here is a ten minute sketch of Johnson's hand at the table: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents ... v232Please note the Eliot Janeway speaking was LBJ's financial advisor; that Janeway made the rounds of Boston and New York financial houses Summer '63 hissing what a dangerous man this Kennedy was.Remember Kennedy's tentative step to abolish the Federal Reserve and shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces.Dulles, Cabell, Bissell et al were fired.Would Rockefeller speak on behalf of the threatened Federal Reserve.What of Johnson who had great ambition, no stranger to force, much legal trouble, and would be dropped from the ticket.Hoover, who ran the "investigation" for the Commission (and was fed info by future President Ford), would have been denied waiver of mandatory retirement after re-election.Marcello was in a courtroom Friday November 22 thanks to the dog's tail. Sharing the animosity for the president with Hoffa, Giancana, Roselli and their associates including Mr. James Files.Did Hussein serve Brzezinski. Did Brzezinski coauthor with Robert Gates the CFR paper "Iran: Time for a New Approach" (2004). Was the 1981 Pakistan trip concealed by Brennan's Analysis Corp. passport file service as professional courtesy.Reed depicts a bunker wherein Bill Clinton and Oliver North sing cover of Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot fighting in the captain's tower.There will be meetings with Medvedev 15 Nov; Hu Jintao 16 Nov; Wen Jiabao 18 Nov. Will the Afghan drug trade agreement dictate the final order of battle.ALL excellent points Phil.

[ThomZajac]

Being the big picture guy that I am, I think I've come up with a way of looking at the JFK plot.As the CIA evolved it became less a subordinate tool of the official US government and much more of an independent covert agency pursuing its own agenda. As such, it had its own unofficial 'board of directors' (Rockefeller, Rothchild, etc) who also acted as the chief money suppliers thereby enabling much/most of the CIA activities to go unmonitored and unknown by the official US government.Dulles and the board decided JFK must go (for many reasons, peaceful ambitions and the issuance of US Treasury notes probably at the top of the list), and Dulles quickly set a plan in motion. Hoover and LBJ eagerly jumped on board, and the CIA apparatus used to kill (and attempt to kill) foreign leaders was employed to carry out the execution. As was the case in other coups, key people such as Lansdale and Phillips assumed important positions, along with top members of the Secret Service.The CIA had gained control of the main stream media long before, and with LBJ, Hoover and Helms controlling the investigation(s), success of the plot to kill the president and coverup the truth was assured.Comments?

[Bob]

ThomZajac wrote:Being the big picture guy that I am, I think I've come up with a way of looking at the JFK plot.As the CIA evolved it became less a subordinate tool of the official US government and much more of an independent covert agency pursuing its own agenda. As such, it had its own unofficial 'board of directors' (Rockefeller, Rothchild, etc) who also acted as the chief money suppliers thereby enabling much/most of the CIA activities to go unmonitored and unknown by the official US government.Dulles and the board decided JFK must go (for many reasons, peaceful ambitions and the issuance of US Treasury notes probably at the top of the list), and Dulles quickly set a plan in motion. Hoover and LBJ eagerly jumped on board, and the CIA apparatus used to kill (and attempt to kill) foreign leaders was employed to carry out the execution. As was the case in over coups, key people such as Lansdale and Phillips assumed important positions, along with top members of the Secret Service.The CIA had gained control of the main stream media long before, and with LBJ, Hoover and Helms controlling the investigation(s), success of the plot to kill the president and coverup the truth was assured.Comments?Yes...too well thought out. I can't argue with much that you say. Plus, remember what the Dulles brothers did before they became famous. Look at this...Wall Street funded NazisIn his book, Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler, Professor Antony Sutton, author of nineteen books, provides a thoroughly documented account of the role played by Morgan, Rockefeller, General Electric Company, Standard Oil, National City Bank, Chase and Manhattan banks, Kuhn, Loeb and Company, General Motors, Ford, and other industrialists, in helping to finance the Nazis. To prove his point, Professor Sutton provides bank statements, letters from U.S. ambassadors, mainstream media sources, Congressional Records, excerpts from Congressional Investigations, and statements from the Nuremberg trials. Wall Street's funding of the Nazis is part of authentic history.Professor Sutton wrote that "General Motors, Ford, General Electric, DuPont," and other "U.S. companies intimately involved with the development of Nazi Germany were ... controlled by the Wall Street elite," such as "the J.P. Morgan firm, the Rockefeller Chase Bank and to a lesser extent the Warburg Manhattan bank.""The deal bringing Hitler into the government was cut at the home of banker Baron Kurt von Schroeder on January 4, 1933," wrote author Marrs. Other notable figures that are said to have appeared at this meeting include Council on Foreign Relations members John Foster Dulles, and Allen Dulles, of the New York law firm Sullivan and Cromwell, which represented the Schroeder bank. Allen Dulles would eventually become a member the Bilderbergers and director of the CIA."Max Warburg," stated Marrs, "a major German banker, and his brother Paul Warburg, who had been instrumental in establishing the Federal Reserve System in the United States, were directors of Interssen Gemeinschaft Farben or I.G. Farben, the giant German chemical firm that produced Zyklon B gas used in Nazi extermination camps." On the left we see used canisters of the Zyklon B gas found by the allies after WWII. The gas was apparently produced with the full support of American industrialists. "The financing for Adolph Hitler's rise to power was handled through the Warburg-controlled Mendelsohn Bank of Amsterdam and later by the J. Henry Schroeder Bank with branches in Frankfurt, London and New York," wrote Gary Allen. "Chief legal council to the J. Henry Schroeder Bank was the firm Sullivan and Cromwell whose senior partners included John Foster and Allen Dulles."Plus you have this from the same article...Other U.S. companies which contributed heavily to the Nazi war machine include Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH) and Union Banking Corporation (UBC), both of New York. Prescott Bush (grandfather of President George W. Bush) was a partner at BBH and director of UBC. UBC of New York, which was founded and chaired by E. Roland Harriman, is now confirmed to have been a Nazi front company.In a story called, Bush-Nazi Link Confirmed, on October 10, 2003, The New Hampshire Daily Gazette announced, "After 60 years of inattention and even denial by the U.S. media, newly-uncovered government documents in The National Archives and Library of Congress reveal that Prescott Bush ... served as a business partner ... for the financial architect of the Nazi war machine from 1926 until 1942." A similar article appeared in the London Guardian on September 25, 2004, it was entitled, How Bush's Grandfather Helped Hitler's Rise to Power."Prescott Sheldon Bush ... father of the [former] President George [H. W.] Bush ... was a partner in the Wall Street firm of Brown Brothers Harriman for 40 years," wrote Professor Marrs. "It was Brown Brothers Harriman that helped to finance ... the 1917 communist revolution in Moscow and the rise of Hitler and Nazism, through money made possible by it and the affiliated Guaranty Trust Company." Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands who served in an intelligence unit for the German branch of Farben was also a member of the Nazi SS. Bernhard eventually became a founding member of the Bilderbergers.Evil begets evil.

[Dealey Joe]

Lofty wrote:I was checking out this document, http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boodleboys1.htmlNot only does it link Skull and Bones with the early German Masonic Orders, i noticed a strange symbol attached to an official signature about halfway down the page, the symbol looks to me very much like the one used by the Illuminati, except this was in the early part of the Twentieth Century and is on behalf of Brown Brothers Harriman.Basically this document provides a starting time for the power group that has been behind American politics.Here is some good basic information as to when the U.S. really turned the corner.Notice underr Taft in 1909 era the Federal Reserve System and The "Voluntary" Income Tax was introduced.The two major moves to totally destroy our Constitution and put us under the total control of the "Iinvisible Empire"