Getting the Picture

[Kirk]

If a picture is worth a 1000 words, what does an altered picture say?Some of the biggest insights I have learned from this Forum come from the links and pictures that I was unaware of even their existence. I had already formed the opinion that except for maybe the films, pictures etc. that might have been confiscated by the "Government" we were left with the photographic evidence from the worst photographers and reporters that you could get in one place at one time. Everything out of focus with camera shaking pointing at shoes, much like an elderly Aunt at a kid's birthday party taking pictures for the first time. The exception for me has been James Altgens. I have started to wonder what might have been, if he had not been forced to leave his first choice of position, which was on the triple over pass.Now, after watching Jack White discuss,and point out all of the Z film alterations, I wonder if we are actually lucky to have the few Altgen's pictures at all. I find Jack White to down to earth, credible and extremely sincere. We are lucky as well to have him consumed by finding the truth. I wonder a little about why alterations of the Z film didn't go even further to create a myth, by trying to make the frontal head shot go away completely. It is possible that it was a factor of time.Anyway, so I am going to Dealey this weekend for only the third time in my life, and second time to look around. I felt weird sensations the last time being there. I felt like a strange tourist in my own country and state. I felt like I was some kind of gawker staring at another person's tragedy, but thanks to this forum I realize that it is a tragdey for all of us, even those that could careless, or live in their own ignorant bliss or abyss.Thanks for helping me to see things with fresh eyes.

[Bob]

Kirk wrote:If a picture is worth a 1000 words, what does an altered picture say?Some of the biggest insights I have learned from this Forum come from the links and pictures that I was unaware of even their existence. I had already formed the opinion that except for maybe the films, pictures etc. that might have been confiscated by the "Government" we were left with the photographic evidence from the worst photographers and reporters that you could get in one place at one time. Everything out of focus with camera shaking pointing at shoes, much like an elderly Aunt at a kid's birthday party taking pictures for the first time. The exception for me has been James Altgens. I have started to wonder what might have been, if he had not been forced to leave his first choice of position, which was on the triple over pass.Now, after watching Jack White discuss,and point out all of the Z film alterations, I wonder if we are actually lucky to have the few Altgen's pictures at all. I find Jack White to down to earth, credible and extremely sincere. We are lucky as well to have him consumed by finding the truth. I wonder a little about why alterations of the Z film didn't go even further to create a myth, by trying to make the frontal head shot go away completely. It is possible that it was a factor of time.Anyway, so I am going to Dealey this weekend for only the third time in my life, and second time to look around. I felt weird sensations the last time being there. I felt like a strange tourist in my own country and state. I felt like I was some kind of gawker staring at another person's tragedy, but thanks to this forum I realize that it is a tragdey for all of us, even those that could careless, or live in their own ignorant bliss or abyss.Thanks for helping me to see things with fresh eyes.Good for you Kirk! I like Jack White as well, and I communicate with him on occasion. White's views on the Zapruder film being fake were obviously just reinforced by Doug Horne's great investigation. In terms of asking questions, remember what Confucius once said..."He who asks a question will feel silly for a moment...but he who never asks questions will be silly forever." In this forum...we ALL learn and get educated. The last couple of months have proved that, as I have found answers to things I didn't know about or I was finally convinced of certain things...like the Zapruder film being faked in certain areas. Let us know how your trip to Dealey Plaza goes.

[kenmurray]

Kirk, have a good time at Dealey Plaza. What ever you do, don't waste your time at Gary Mack's Oswald-did-it-alone-Museum.

[Kirk]

Thanks Bob and KenI did the TSBD last time, and that was plenty. I do not know a whole lot about Mack. Seems like he has changed sides a number of times.

[Bob]

Odds are you will see Robert Groden this weekend. Robert is usually there on weekends. Say hello for us. Robert has a link to this site on his website.

[Wayne Stracener]

But yet , On top of all that blur,shaking and blocks, Little ol' Mary Moorman, A little bit excited and nervous, Produces 5 with one missing, Professionaly centered and even with a moving subject, Hardly produce's any blur perfect polaroids, Back then when I had a polaroid at Xmas time I would be lucky to have two good ones out of five, But this woman pulls off the amazing while standing in the street or a few feet away in the grass with Harley Davidson motors thundering in the plaza, I'm on to you Mary, Better give the money back!!!

[ChristophMessner]

Why isn't it possible for anybody who comes to Dealey Plaza for research to dig a little in the city archives or family lofts to find a picture of Jack Dougherty, who was on the 5th and 6th floor when the shots rang out?

[Phil Dragoo]

Kirk, you may find Assassination Science, edited by James Fetzer, Part IV, The Zapruder Film: Seeing but Not Believing of use. Pages 207-344.And of course we'll all be studying Doug Horne's Volume IV.How nice that Zapruder happened to be there and provide the forty-eight frames per second to be chopped to eighteen point five.Working with LIFE.The film run through the Rochester Kodak processing works, the NPIC, home again, home again fiddle dee dee.The Great Zapruder Film Hoax:Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFKhttp://www.assassinationresearch.com/v3n2/v3n2dellarosa.pdf

[Lofty]

I have had my suspicions about the authenticity of the Z film for some time, the pdf essay posted by Phil has me convinced, that the Z film has been subject to some alteration.However trying to find out when and where and by whom may be all but impossible, but that is not the point really, the fact that the Z film is not a true record of that day, just indicates further the size of the plot in Dallas and the resultant cover up.

[SeamusCoogan]

Phil Dragoo wrote:Kirk, you may find Assassination Science, edited by James Fetzer, Part IV, The Zapruder Film: Seeing but Not Believing of use. Pages 207-344.And of course we'll all be studying Doug Horne's Volume IV.How nice that Zapruder happened to be there and provide the forty-eight frames per second to be chopped to eighteen point five.Working with LIFE.The film run through the Rochester Kodak processing works, the NPIC, home again, home again fiddle dee dee.The Great Zapruder Film Hoax:Deceit and Deception in the Death of JFKhttp://www.assassinationresearch.com/v3n2/v3n2 ... sa.pdfPhil you really have to look at What Groden has said on the issue. I agree with his take. Furthermore. I like Fetzer but his judgement is well off in many ways concerning JFK. Take a look at his take on Northwoods. Now I cribbed this below from a piece I did critiquing Alex Jones and Prison Planets appalling track record with the Kennedy assassination and how gormless his chief researcher Paul Watson is.The full piece is in this link below.http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net ... .htm“After the inevitably bungled Bay of Pigs operation, responsibility for dealing with Cuba was shifted from the CIA to the Pentagon, where the project would be known as OPERATION MONGOOSE. Under the guise of Lemnitzer and Air-Force One star General Edward G. Lansdale, the Pentagon saw its opportunity to further remove itself from civilian authority particularly that of JFK who was seen by many generals as a ‘no win chief’ who did not understand military judgments.”This is a complete misnomer, and once again there is no adequate footnote concerning this information Watson seems to miraculously pull from thin air. For two, Operation Mongoose was run in conjunction with the newly formed SG(A) or Special Group Augmented and was not led by General Lemnitzer but by General Maxwell Taylor who was appointed by the President. Furthermore, civilians such as Robert Kennedy and Robert McNamara often turned up to the meetings. The Central Intelligence Agency (a civilian organisation) where represented by their Director John McCone and by his deputy Richard Helms. Helms, was working closely with General Edward Lansdale the coordinator of the project. Lansdale was purely a creature of the CIA. Thus they retained a large amount of control over the operation in particularly with the rabid William Harvey leading Task Force W which was based in Miami at the JM Wave Station. This is all explained in the Church Committee Report [pgs 139-145] (http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archi ... PageId=153)“By February 1962 it was clear that an uprising in Cuba was highly unlikely. In addition, it was generally accepted that Castro had no desire to attack America or anything belonging to America. Lansdale had also been told to drop all anti-Castro efforts by Robert Kennedy, and the JCS saw their opportunities slipping away. There was only one option left for Lemnitzer and Lansdale, and that was NORTHWOODS.”Again Watson provides no footnotes for this piece. Thus, it was at this stage that I wondered where he could have got this malarkey from and I had to laugh when I found out that it seems it was via Bamford, the Operation Northwood’s hero himself whose book was eagerly endorsed by 9/11 and JFK researcher James Fetzer. Fetzer, an extremely likable fellow is also a fixture in the Kennedy assassination community, though I generally like Fetzer’s outlook, I have struggled with some of his work on the assassination and after reading this review I can see why. (http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1 ... ecrets.htm)In reality it was early on in the Mongoose process that Operation Northwood’s was discussed and bought to the President. Operation Mongoose began 31st of November 1961 (a typo on page 139 of the Church Committee Report may have led to some confusion as it says “In November of 1962 the proposal for a major new covert program to overthrow Castro was developed, as one goes on however it is clear the date is 1961.) Kennedy actually called off the Mongoose operations on October 30th 1962, [Church Committee Report pgs 139-148]. (http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archi ... PageId=153) Now bare in mind this is some 11 months after Watson believes Kennedy supposedly got cold feet about it. So once again, we see Watson playing father time like he did with Nero and Diocletian.You can clearly see that Fetzer went for the Baloney written by Bamford on Northwoods and thus clearly I find Fetzer's take a little uneven at times. Fetzers on the right track with Marrs on the Oswald photo however. But theres a thing called 'Primary sources' (as you know) Fetzer and Bamford should have checked them. Northwoods is an important piece of information and needs to be handled carefully. In saying that Fetzers 9/11 stuff bar his take on Northwoods seems okay.