RFK Thought Brother's Assassination Was Conspiracy

[ThomZajac]

Hey Seamus, thanks for the kind treatment...I misspoke at least once in my earlier post; the cover story swallowed hook, line and sinker by Hartmann and Waldron, was that the Mafia (not Castro) exploited RFK's covert plans against Castro's Cuba. Mine is just an educated guess, I admit, but the pieces seem to fit.And Stan, I think you are on the money.

[Phil Dragoo]

Jim DiEugenio drives over Talbot vis-a-vis Sheridan in his review of Brothers at http://www.ctka.net/brothers.html Part IV.We may assume Robert was not stupid, and not taken in by either Hoover or Johnson, although taking Sheridan at face value--though we can't know the latter.In my view, Mafia figures figured at the operational level--what is Jack Ruby, chopped liver?But the decision was more likely made by Richard Helms than Carlos Marcello.Blakey et al have worked the-mob-did-it to death. Waldron put me to sleep, so I'm not sure where he was going. Sheridan was a CIA-involved saboteur of Garrison.A reference to Hunt in the article reminds us that Hunt's deathbed deflection was to Johnson.So, we have a magnetic field deflecting attention from CIA, emanating from. . .CIA.Douglass dealt with the back-channels, and with the FIVE "Bay of Pigs" committed by 35, when JFK had said Seven Days might come if a president committed but three.Should we not assume that since Robert was struck by a CIA-involved op (Pena and Hernandez, plus VIP guests at the Ambassador) that he was dangerously close.To what? To three letters? Or to the arrogance of stage managing history enjoyed by an elite threatened by "that little Kennedy--he thought he was some kind of god"--Dulles.Would likely include someone as bold as Lodge, who defied the president. But it was just coincidence that Charles and Earl Cabell were brothers, that Phillips was from Texas, that the Depository was a stage prop of Byrd productions. Spook ectoplasm abounds. Call in the Ghostbusters of jfkmurdersolved.

[SeamusCoogan]

Stan wrote:Hi Seamus,Weren't Bundy, Rusk, Lansdale, Cabot, Harriman, Helms etc. all Rockefeller men on the inside?Wasn't the CIA formed from Rockefeller stock?Aren't the owners of the Federal Reserve the head of the lion that wags a very long tail?You know far more about this than I do. Please educate me.They're all bloody good points. During the 2nd World War for sure the old OSS headquarters were stationed in the Rockefeller center.As for Bundy, Rusk, Lansdale, Cabot, Harriman, Helms. HmmmmmmmmmmmmThats an interesting one Stan. Bundy, Rusk and Cabot came from very wealthy old school families as did the Harriman's. All to my knowledge were part of the council on foreign relations which incidentally seems to have been a study group set up by Pres Wilson. Rockefeller's seem to have come to dominance on it around phewwwww about the early 30's. This going from memory and the odd kack notes I take. Lol Bob will tell you my notes are a bit dodge as I once said Prescott Bush died in 1963 the year he left capitol hill lol. All these guys from what I can recall where Republican and loaded. Rusk, and Cabot I think sat on numerous Rockefeller boards. The Tri Lateral Commission is more closely associated with Rockefeller initiatives from what I can recall and I think thats where Bundy comes into it and from what I can ascertain was also CFR. Its safe to say they all rubbed shoulders.whom as we all know initially made their money via the railroad expansions of the 1800's. Forgive me if the precise dates are a little off Stan, but the Harrimans joined up with the Brown Brothers banking group by sheeesh either just before or during the early 1930's. Now the Harrimans were loaded and of course owned Union Pacific and so fourth and of course spanned all forms of transportation so of course cheap fuel was a needed and of course with the Rockefellers mining and oil assets both traded amongst each other and made a killing. Everyone knows of course the Rockefellers helped feed the business's other wealthy men had and of course helped out with the odd loan from the old bank. Now the federal reserve bank. Theres a lot of hocus pocus, but theres some truth to it for sure. A real good look into the Federal Reserve is in Donald Gibsons book battling wall street. Now thats fascinating stuff. Sadly a lot of the stuff out there is rather super paranoid. What it seems is that the more powerful the banking institution is the more input they can get on putting people onto the Federal Reserve. It hasnt always been the domain of the Rockefellers to my knowledge Now, sheesh man battles with the Bank go right back as you know. The question is was it Kennedy's moves to put it on ice that got him killed. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. I think it maybe one of the factors. But not the key point, whats fascinating is that these giants would have made money out of Kennedys death and with him alive lol. But Im not gonna discount it all. As for Lansdale, well hes a very small part in this if you wanna go down the Fletcher Prouty route. I am 50-50 on it, leaning more to it lol. No Lansdale seems to have had little to do directly with any Rockefeller initiatives. Lansdale came from an upper middle class, but by comparison to his peers was something of a working class hero. He got his career kick started in Newspaper advertising. Lol, he came up with marketing campaigns which I cant quite remember for which paper. Helms was a Journo, came from a rich family of Republican assholes. I think Helms ties to big business came later on during his reign at the top and of course in Iran. But of course the connections were there. Stan its fascinating, I think where we all get a bit hog tied is as I said before when your big enough your interests intersect with so many others. Did the Rockefellers themselves order the hit. Not so sure, is anything like this ordered lol. I love prouty's take on all this from the secret team theres no one guiding institution or person its almost organic sort of a confluence of interest. Dulles really sums up corporate america and looks to me to be more and more in the hot seat, thats just not me either thats a lot of people that put him there or there abouts. I think Dulles rather than anyone else is where you wanna start. Hes at the dead centre of it all. But yeah I think they would have known at least what went on for sure. Im going to stick with the CIA and we all know they're called Capitalisms Invisible Army!

[SeamusCoogan]

ThomZajac wrote:Hey Seamus, thanks for the kind treatment...I misspoke at least once in my earlier post; the cover story swallowed hook, line and sinker by Hartmann and Waldron, was that the Mafia (not Castro) exploited RFK's covert plans against Castro's Cuba. Mine is just an educated guess, I admit, but the pieces seem to fit.And Stan, I think you are on the money.I think Thom all of the above bullshit angles would have been chucked at Kennedy. But whats funny I never actually thought myself about this/these angles being used in such a way. Of course they would have. So no i like the logic and how you turned waldron upside down.

[SeamusCoogan]

Stan wrote:Seamus, I think sometimes a mistake is made when we view these powerful institutions as being separate. I don't believe they are; not any more. The owners of the Federal Reserve run the country and own the American Empire. Those owners own Wall Street and the CIA and a lot more. The CIA is an appendage of the corporate American Empire. It's the big right arms that brings the hammer down when necessary. That hammer fell on JFK.This snip from Democratic Unground http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... 89x4926619 on Richard Helms and his lineage:spymaster RICHARD HELMS' grandpa:"Announcements of the most authoritative character made it seemcertain, last week, that the governors of Europe's great centralbanks of issue have told Gates W. McGarrah, now board chairman ofthe New York Federal Reserve Bank, that they wish to elect him boardchairman of the new Bank for International Settlements soon to beset up in Basle, Switzerland, as "the cash register of Germanreparations" (TIME, March 25 et seq.).Massive and magnificent of mien is Gates McGarrah, 67, of strikingresemblance to the late J. P. Morgan Sr. He is a director of suchlarge corporations as American Brake Shoe & Foundry Co., a member ofpractically every tycoon's club in Manhattan.Banker McGarrah would not comment. Friends spoke of the "greatsacrifice" it would be for him to quit his august Federal Reservepost; but few thought that he would not choose to go to Switzerlandand shoulder Europe's great task.The men in and of the CIA (Dulles, Helms, Phillips, Angleton, Harvey) weren't rogues. They were working from the inside, knowing full well who the real bosses were. They executed orders, they didn't issue them. At least, that is my belief.I don't think Kennedy was murdered specifically because of his threat to the Federal Reserve, per se. It was the threat he represented in total to American Business and banking. His ideology ran in direct opposition to the power structure that ran and owned the country. They were not going to allow John Kennedy to remove them from the top of the perch. Too much power was at stake. David Rockefeller and JFK were roughly the same age. The Rockefellers had established themselves as the pinnacle of power in America, taking over ownership of the Fed in the 30s. It was obvious that Kennedy was planning a complete overhaul of the way the country was being run. JFK's brother was next in line. And, then possibly Teddy. A complete shift was in the works. Ask yourself this, if JFK had lived, would America's corporate landscape be the same? As for who issued the order, of course we can only guess. I don't know if that order came from the Rockefellers, but I bet you they were in the room, and the room wasn't very crowded.Pure speculation: After considerable angst, a conversation takes place with Rockefeller and Cabot or Harriman. "He's got to go." Allen Dulles is brought in and asked a few questions. A call is made to Clint Murchinson. That's all it would have taken. The whole complexity of the plot would flow from there with the power to achieve anything that needed to be done.Here is a snip from Peter Dale Scott:Group 1 wants a certain president gone from office, before he can be reelected and make radical changes that move them from the control they have enjoyed and want to continue. They wish another person as president, one that could possibly be president for even more than 8 years. They feel this other person can either be controlled or is so corrupt he is already controlled.So they find an enemy of the president (Group 2) and give them direction emotionally and physically toward their already strong desires to also get rid of this president (JFK) and his brother, the Attorney General, whom they hate.Group 2 (Intelligence/Rightwing/Oil group) finds Group 3 (Anti-Castro Cubans) and give them direction emotionally and physically toward their already stong desires to get rid of this president. This group thinks they have it over Group 2 because the Attorney General is helping them with their cause against their enemy (Castro).Group 3 is suspicious of Group 2 and sets up a patsy (same patsy created by Group 2) to not only be patsied but to blame the assassination on their other enemy. Two birds with one stone.Group 1 is aware but has no plans to let Group 3's plan succeed. After the assassination, they drop Group 3 and follow through with the new president.Group 2 moves on to greener pastures.Group 3 is pissed and continues to try to blame the assassination on their other enemy (Castro).Group 1 has moved on to greener pastures.I think this may be how it worked. The only question who is Group 1? Reading through some of Donald Gibson's books about who Kennedy was really battling, and who quickly shoved the Warren Commission down our throats, the answer comes up like a photograph in solution. There are owners of the Unite States. The owners knew JFK was a threat to that ownership. And, they killed him for it.But, this thread is about Bobby Kennedy and his reaction to this brother's murder. Bobby was smart. I think he knew the power he was up against. It wasn't just anti-Castro Cubans and the CIA. He was up against the hurricane, but he walked out into it anyway.Sorry Stan why the lecture? Lol I pretty much said the same thing in my earlier post that it all intersects. All of these intersected with the men you named I have no argument. The Helms stuff is great however. My angle is that it is in parts more organised and at times more chaotic than we give it credit for. Cuba however is a good place to start and I like your research style.

[Pennyworth]

Stan wrote:Anti Casto Cubans and the CIA. Bobby had to be smarter than that.Rockefeller, Bobby. Rockefeller."We Kennedy's eat Rockefeller's for breakfast."Don't think so.Thanx for bringing this up old buddy friend or foe no?I think if RFK quoted in a vice -versa version it would be a more befitting metaphor.

[Bob]

Stan has shown some excellent insight into who controlled the conspiracy in both the JFK and RFK assassinations in my opinion. Seamus brings up excellent points as well. Bottom line, beside all their enemies, both JFK and RFK had Brutus types in their own circles. That certainly helped when it was time to take them out.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:Stan has shown some excellent insight into who controlled the conspiracy in both the JFK and RFK assassinations in my opinion. Seamus brings up excellent points as well. Bottom line, beside all their enemies, both JFK and RFK had Brutus types in their own circles. That certainly helped when it was time to take them out.I agree totally Bob.

[SeamusCoogan]

Stan wrote:Apologies, Seamus, if that came off as a lecture. Not my intention at all. I've read through a few of your posts here. Believe me. I am no one to be lecturing you.Phooey Stan I'm here to learn from everyone. bUT cheers that Helms piece was some nice digging and adds another dimension to that SOB.

[ThomZajac]

Seamus wrote-"I don't know if that order came from the Rockefellers, but I bet you they were in the room, and the room wasn't very crowded."A gem, Seamus, a real gem.