Ruth Paine-Miss Innocent?

[Dealey Joe]

Another little glimps into Ruth Paine.

[Deborah]

This is interesting Warren Commission Testimoney of James Herbert Martin about a telephone call the night before the assassination giving instructions to Oswald and to Ruby.James Herbert MartinPortion Warren Commission Testimony###“Mr. DULLES. Just one minute. This should go in the record.Representative BOGGS. Who is this individual?Mr. MARTIN. I have been trying to remember his name. I can find out his name. It began with an "H".Mr. DULLES. Would you repeat the story, please, and then we will continue with the examination.Mr. MARTIN. I met a gentleman who is an executive with the Dinkler Hotel chain, and he related the story to me that was told to him by one of their engineers, a maintenance man in the Atlanta, in their Atlanta hotel. The maintenance man's wife was an, or is a long distance telephone operator, and on the night preceding the assassination there was an individual that called, well, the way I heard the story, that she said he sounded like he had been drinking, and that he mentioned to her to remember this telephone call because it would go down in history. He made a credit card call to Lee Harvey Oswald, and simply said, "Proceed as planned." Then he made another telephone call to Jack Ruby and told him that if anything went wrong he knew what to do. Now, I questioned this, I guess there are numerous rumors of this type or whatever it is, and he said no, that it was definitely the truth, and the reason she hadn't come out before with it was that it is a violation of Federal law to listen to a long distance telephone call, and that they finally did report it to the FBI.Mr. REDLICH. The person you were speaking to, as I understand this story, received the information from a maintenance man whose wife was the telephone operator who overheard the conversation?Mr. MARTIN. Yes.Representative BOGGS. Was this a telephone operator in a Dinkler hotel? 493 Mr. MARTIN. I didn't get that whether it was in a Dinkler hotel or whether she was in the long distance or toll offices in Atlanta.Representative BOGGS. Did this person have the credit card number and so forth?Mr. MARTIN. No. The person that I was talking to?Representative BOGGS. Did the telephone operator have it?Mr. MARTIN. The telephone operator did, or the telephone company has the records.”###

[Bob]

That Ruth Paine has clear CIA connections and associations can NOT be refuted. This thread by Joe proves that. Yet the Lone Nutters see NO connection. Huh? Gerald Posner also said in Case Closed that Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferrie never met or had any association. Huh? The Lone Nutters also believe in the magic bullet theory. SEVEN wounds by an almost pristine bullet. And the Lone Nutters think OUR side is crazy! Of course, we don't have the backing of the CIA and the MSM. Not to mention the U.S. government.

[kenmurray]

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.bac ... llers.html

[kenmurray]

Lee Harvey Oswald Expert Marksman-But Couldn't Drive A car!THE MAN WHO COULD--AND COULDN'T--DRIVEMarina Oswald and Ruth and Michael Paine all told the Warren Commission in no uncertain terms that Lee Harvey Oswald did not drive an automobile and did not have a driver's license. But John Armstrong has found many witnesses who said Oswald did drive, including a former employee of the Texas Department of Public Safety License Records Department who issued a signed statement to a Garrison investigator stating that she had processed Oswald's returned driver's license after he was killed. This article explores these seeming contradictions.Marina Oswald repeatedly told the Warren Commission that her husband did not drive. For example: Mrs. OSWALD. Never. No; this is all not true. In the first place, my husband couldn't drive, and I was never alone with him in a car. Anytime we went in a car it was with Ruth Paine, and there was never--we never went to any gun store and never had any telescopic lens mounted.Mr. RANKIN. Did the four of you, that is, your husband, you, and your two children, ever go alone any place in Irving?Mrs. OSWALD. In Irving the ba** was only 1 month old. I never took her out anywhere.Representative FORD. Did you ever go anytime----Mrs. OSWALD. Just to doctor, you know.Representative FORD. Did you ever go anytime with your husband in a car with the rifle?Mrs. OSWALD. I was never at anytime in a car with my husband and with a rifle. Not only with the rifle, not even with a pistol. Even without anything I was never with my husband in a car under circumstances where he was driving a car. (WC V, 401)Michael Paine also indicated several times that Lee Harvey Oswald did not drive. For example:Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see Oswald drive a car?Mr. PAINE. No; I did not. (WC II, 413)Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever see Oswald drive a car?Mr. PAINE. No; I did not. (WC II, 413)In her Warren Commission testimony, Ruth Paine stated that as late as the weekend before the assassination of JFK, Oswald had failed to obtain a learner's permit so that he could eventually acquire a valid Texas driver's license.Mr. JENNER. You did talk with him on the telephone?Mrs. PAINE. That is my recollection. I am certain that I talked with him, that he was surprised that he didn't need a car. I had to tell him that he didn't need a car to take with him to take his test.Mr. JENNER. Take his initial test?Mrs. PAINE. Take his test, and suggested that he go from Dallas himself to take this test. Then he called us Saturday afternoon of the 16th to say he had been and tried to get his driver's permit but that he had arrived before closing time but still to late to get in because there was a long line ahead of him, the place having been closed both the previous Saturday for election day and the following Monday, the 11th, Veterans Day. There were a lot of people who wanted to get permits and he was advised that it wouldn't pay him to wait in line. He didn't have time to be tested.Mr. JENNER. Could you help us fix, can you recall as closely as possible the day of the week, this is the weekend of the assassination, was it not?Mrs. PAINE. The weekend before.Mr. JENNER. The weekend before, and this conversation you are now relating that you had with him in which he said that he had gone to the driver's license station, when did that conversation with you take place?Mrs. PAINE. That conversation was with Marina, and she told me about it.Mr. JENNER. When did she tell you about it?Mrs. PAINE. He called her, it must have been Saturday afternoon, soon after he had been, he went Saturday morning and they closed at noon.Mr. JENNER. I see. This was the weekend he did not come out to Irving?From reading this testimony, you would think it was clear that Lee Harvey Oswald did not drive a car and did not have a Texas driver's license. But this is just one side of the controvery.Following is a list of names assembled in 1997 ** John Armstrong of people who either testified that Lee Oswald routinely drove a car or who knew of that ability:PEOPLE WHO HAD KNOWLEDGE THAT LEE COULD DRIVE Cliff Shasteen Joyce Bostic Leonard Hutchinson Inez Laake Fred Moore Gayle Scott Malcolm Price Peggy Smith Floyd Guy Davis Mrs. Ernie Isaacs Gertrude Hunter Margaret Budreau Edith Whitworth Clifford Wormser Red Pope FBI Agent Bob Barrett Leo Sepulveda DPD Captain Westbrook Sonny Stewart Edward Brand Robert Janca Garland Slack Robert Roy William J. Chesher Al Bogard Howard Price W.M. Hannie Sterling Wood Mrs. Lee Bozarth Dr. Homer Wood Aletha Frair Randy Sundy

[Davyjones]

Re Kens post. To me you dont go for a test unless you can drive? I am assuming the licence application requires the applicant to show in a practical way by driving a vehicle? Is the process different in the US?

[kenmurray]

A Tale Of Two Days; A Tale Of Two Oswalds:http://www.jfklancer.com/Page1.html

[kenmurray]

Name: Albert Guy Bogard Assassination Connection: Albert Guy Bogard worked as an automobile salesman at Downtown Lincoln-Mercury in Dallas, Texas. Penn Jones, in volume II of Forgive My Grief, states that: On Nov. 9, 1963 salesman Bogard showed a new Mercury automobile to a man using the name of Lee Oswald. The two took a demonstration drive with the prospect at the wheel.... The prospect said that he would not have the money for a couple of weeks, but he would then pay cash for the car. Bogard had to ask twice before the man said his name was Lee Oswald. We believe the men in this group who have met with either shooting or death were seeing a false Oswald." Date of Death: Stated by Penn Jones to be February 14, 1966. Place of Death: Stated by Penn Jones to be Hallsville, Louisiana. Circumstances of Death: Penn Jones states in volume II of Forgive My Grief, that Bogard had testified before the Warren Commission, and, according to Jones, he was found so badly beaten some time later that he required hospitalization. Bogard later left Dallas and returned to Louisiana, his home State. Jones states that: Bogard was from Hallsville, Louisiana. He was found dead in his car at the Hallsville Cemetery on St. Valentine's Day, 1966. A hose had been connected to the exhaust end and the other end inside the car with the windows up. The ruling was suicide.

[Phil Dragoo]

DiEugenio on Douglass' treatment of the Paines. Obviously they were linked to CIA and Dulles, were essential to the pre-assassination manipulation of the patsy, and to the post-assassination incrimination.JFK and the Unspeakableby James W. Douglass Reviewed by James DiEugenio http://www.ctka.net/2008/jfk_unspeakable.htmlGenerally speaking, Douglass has done a good job of choosing some of the better evidence that has appeared of late to indicate a conspiracy.  What he does with Ruth and Michael Paine, especially the former, is salutary. Michael Paine did not just work at Bell Helicopter.  He did not just have a security clearance there. His stepfather, Arthur Young, invented the Bell helicopter.  His mother, Ruth Forbes Paine Young, was descended from the Boston Brahmin Forbes family -- one of the oldest in America.  She was a close friend of Mary Bancroft.  Mary Bancroft worked with Allen Dulles as a spy during World War II in Switzerland.  This is where Dulles got many of his ideas on espionage, which he would incorporate as CIA Director under Eisenhower.  Bancroft also became Dulles' friend and lover.  She herself called Ruth Forbes, "a very good friend of mine." (p. 169) This may explain why, according to Walt Brown, the Paines were the most oft-questioned witnesses to appear before the Commission. Ruth Paine's father was William Avery Hyde.  Ruth described him before the Warren Commission as an insurance underwriter. (p. 170) But there was more to it than that. Just one month after the Warren Report was issued, Mr. Hyde received a three-year government contract from the Agency for International Development (AID).  He became their regional adviser for all of Latin America.  As was revealed in the seventies, AID was riddled with CIA operatives. To the point that some called it an extension of the Agency. Hyde's reports were forwarded both to the State Department and the CIA. (Ibid) Ruth Paine's older sister was Sylvia Hyde Hoke.  Sylvia was living in Falls Church, Virginia in 1963.  Ruth stayed with Sylvia in September of 1963 while traveling across country. (p. 170) Falls Church adjoins Langley, which was then the new headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency, a prized project of Allen Dulles. It was from Falls Church that Ruth Paine journeyed to New Orleans to pick up Marina Oswald, who she had been introduced to by George DeMohrenschildt.  After she picked Marina up, she deposited her in her home in Irving, Texas. Thereby separating Marina from Lee at the time of the assassination. Some later discoveries made Ruth's itinerary in September quite interesting. It turned out that John Hoke, Sylvia's husband, also worked for AID.  And her sister Sylvia worked directly for the CIA itself. By the time of Ruth's visit, Sylvia had been employed by the Agency for eight years.  In regards to this interestingly timed visit to her sister, Jim Garrison asked Ruth some pointed questions when she appeared before a grand jury in 1968.  He first asked her if she knew her sister had a file that was classified at that time in the National Archives. Ruth replied she did not.  In fact, she was not aware of any classification matter at all.  When the DA asked her if she had any idea why it was being kept secret, Ruth replied that she didn't.  Then Garrison asked Ruth if she knew which government agency Sylvia worked for.  The uninquiring Ruth said she did not know. (p. 171) This is the same woman who was seen at the National Archives pouring through her files in 1976, when the House Select Committee was gearing up. When Marina Oswald was called before the same grand jury, a citizen asked her if she still associated with Ruth Paine.  Marina replied that she didn't.  When asked why not, Marina stated that it was upon the advice of the Secret Service. She then elaborated on this by explaining that they had told her it would look bad if the public found out the "connection between me and Ruth and CIA."  An assistant DA then asked, "In other words, you were left with the distinct impression that she was in some way connected with the CIA?"  Marina replied simply, "Yes." (p. 173) Douglass interpolates the above with the why and how of Oswald ending up on the motorcade route on 11/22/63.  Robert Adams of the Texas Employment Commission testified to having called the Paine household at about the time Oswald was referred by Ruth -- via a neighbor-- to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) for a position. He called and was told Oswald was not there.  He left a message for Oswald to come down and see him since he had a position available as a cargo handler at a regional cargo airline.  Interestingly, this job paid about 1/3 more than the job Oswald ended up with at the TSBD.  He called again the next day to inquire about Oswald and the position again.  He was now told that Lee had already taken a job.  Ruth was questioned about the Adams call by the Warren Commission's Albert Jenner.  At first she denied ever hearing of such a job offer. She said, "I do not recall that." (p. 172) She then backtracked, in a tactical way. She now said that she may have heard of the offer from Lee.  This, of course, would seem to contradict both the Adams testimony and common sense. If Oswald was cognizant of the better offer, why would he take the lower paying job?~Also recommended for exposing the links of the Paines to the U.S. Intelligence establishment and particularly Allen W. Dulles: George Michael Evica, A Certain Arrogance.

[Ray Mitcham]

In a Google image of Michael Paine, he does resemble Oswald. Could it be that he was LHO's "double" who appears to be in places where the real LHO couldn't possibly have been?