Where to from here?

[Dealey Joe]

Where do we go from here, have we even went anywhere?It seems to me as though no one understands or is interested in history?History will never be changed, LHO will forever be the killer of JFK?are we waiting on "The papers to be released"? why, what do you think they will show?Do we really want to change anything? Are we all blow and no show? or is it "Don't rock the boat"?You do something but I cant because it might jeopardize my happiness, I might loose my boat, new car, fancy home ect. If you had a chance would you even help? Would you get out of your comfort zone? Are we being honest with ourselves?So far as history is concerned we will never "solve" the assassination. we cant even agree on how many shooters, from where and how many shots. everyone has their own idea.Was their a shot from the front? to the head and/or throat? What does it matter? who are you going to believe, hell just ignore the evidence and we will go with what some attention seeker says?What difference does it make if Beverly Oliver was there or not? If Mary Moorman stepped off the curb or not?What difference does it make if the Zapruder film was damaged or even a total fake. None of us even saw it until 1976?Wim Dankbarr has done more common sense and fact finding work on the assassination than all the other self centered "Researchers" put together. of which most have done far more to muddy the water than to come to any real conclusion.In 50 years as far as I can tell no one with the proper equipment has determined where it was even possible to hit JFK from where? with all the computer science and laser technology it would not be hard to find where it was possible from where shots would be possible? If someone did do it they would be trying to prove their own point and if it showed it was not possible it would just be covered up and not affect their project or new book.I wonder when an author publishes a book then later finds they were wrong what do they do? Would they admit they were in error?One author has "proven" a shot from the south end of the bridge, a forensics expert, A professional court approved expert? I was surprised to learn that in order to get a degree in this field you just buy it , take a short course either by mail order or right on your computer from home. then get someone to hire you to go testify, if you prevail in court then you are considered a court approved expert? I could go on about this for hours. my quick conclusion is Shit in Shit out. What does it really prove anyways?This entire web site contains more information than most of us can comprehend. I am not sure anyone even looks at it any more. It cost someone a lot of Money to keep this site up and running, It has been hacked down a couple times in the past and valuable information lost or had to be replaced.This forum at one time a couple years ago had a large following, almost like a family. Then FaceBook came along and offered a venue for folk to comment on subjects they know nothing about or even care, just throw out their absurd opinions about things, still arguing about the "throat wound" who said what always trying to prove some absurd position they saw on YouTube or somewhere? After all if it's on YouTube it must be correct?Shooters from everywhere, some of the most ridiculous places, sewers, drains, Pergola, bushes, Greer, Jackie, SS Agent on and on, Jesus don't you get tired of that crap?Has anyone ever considered the damage that is possible for one shot to do? if it hit anything around the car it would spray shrapnel everywhere, One shot could look like 3 or 4? Even my good friend James Tague argued a Fourth shot to disprove the Single bullet or Magic Bullet. actually he was most likely hit by a piece of shrapnel from a shot that hit the limo and sprayed lead and copper around.Some say, well there was 10 pr 12 shots to conform with their belief because they cant account for the damage. The main thing that bothers me is that we have allowed the government to lead us around by the nose and use what they told us in order to prove our findings like LHO took a bus, then a cab to his apartment then walked a mile to kill Tippit then to the theater ect.Has anyone ever though that none of this happened at all and we are fed this info just to show what the government wants us to believe?Do any of you have any thoughts on this?

[AlanD]

We might not look like we are achieving anything concrete with all this, but i think we are. For 51 years this event , the murder of the American president by a bunch of maniac's has been kept alive by a band of dedicated people. We currently have less than 10 books for the WC version of events and over 1000 for the various conspiracy version of events. Just yesterday I read an old post on this site which sent me tohttp://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21223and spend a great couple of hours reading Von Plein verses many others arguing about the back wound and the magic bullet. It was a bit reminiscent of the Catholic church 1000 years ago debating how many angels could fit on the head of pin, both camps firmly entrenched and never budging.The problem with ordinary people like us is we do not sit around all day dreaming up multi-layered schemes, the only time I had ever heard of dark matter operations was in Star Trek. These people just dream these things up , layers in layers , all carefully isolated but interlocked. They have been doing it for years and are only get better at it. You and I would think what a waste of time, to them it's of life and death importance and their jobs.You can see all the signs of their involvement in the Oswald patsy set up. Its just difficult for us to see all the layers and the dark matter. The problem is maybe now we have to much info and to many theories, and it's difficult to prove any theory definitively because of them doing such a lousy job at the autopsy. Factor in the disappearance of information that would have been useful , including many photo's and movies confiscated on the day, and in latter years such as Rosco Whites diary etc. I think you raise an interesting issue about the shrapnel , why were the two wife's and the SS men never hit, these are FMJ bullets, even from the carcano they have some stopping power.Some further thoughts that occur after much reading ,strangely enough I was having thoughts about a shot from the south end of the bridge, as the source of the throat shot, Tosh Plumlee claimed a bullet from there " I had the impression of 4 or 5 shots, with one being fired from behind and to my left on the South Knoll, near the underpass and south parking lot." That would require the bullet to hit the limo seat, so as I was looking at the photo's of the limo taken at Parkland's to see if there was a bullet hole in the seat, there was nothttp://jfklancer.com/photos/limo/p0002.jpgI noticed how all the blood and debris was on Jackie's side of the seat and I am left wondering how a rear right side hit could have achieved such a spread of blood etc in the opposite direction . Has anyone commented on a possible escape route from the TSBD for possible assassins and even Oswald to get to the second floor via the fire escape , there in 63 but not now.Finally was the Carcano just a prop, the real shooter used a Mannlicher-Schönauer to do the shooting. It fires a similar bullet with a slightly different cartridge, it's available as a break down version, and it's a way superior weapon, so I read and it sets up the patsy story nicely, while giving the shooter an easier shot.If nothing else this constant questioning over the years has kept them worrying and while they were alive always looking over their shoulders in case something leaked out. Maybe as the years pass and fewer people are alive who remember the hope and the vision of a better tomorrow JFK brought to the world, even though he was rich enough not to need to care , this whole issue will eventually fade, till then we owe it to the man to keep investigating.

[Bob]

Some provocative points and questions there, Joe. Here is the bottom line; history is written by the winners. The winners in this case are the people who control the government and also the media. Those would also be the same forces which gave us the events of 11/22/1963 and 9/11/2001. History will never change as long as those dark forces are in power. They are also trying to control the internet as well, which is the only source of getting the real truth out to the masses.All we can do is keep doing what we are doing. Educating a person here and a person there. That is why this site and forum is great. The same holds true with a lot of great researchers we have on the conspiracy realist side. I can honestly say that my opinion has changed on a number of key issues over the past couple of years regarding the JFK assassination, plus with other assassinations as well, like the murders of RFK and John Lennon. But will history ever change? Probably not. Not with the way the United States of America is becoming the United Corporations of America or the Police States of America. We are starting to resemble Nazi Germany. We have become a war-like country which controls the propaganda given out to the sheeple, spies on the masses and imprisons those who dare to resist.Sound crazy? Remember what Prescott Bush and others of his ilk tried to do in 1933. They tried to overthrow FDR with the help of General Smedley Butler. Bush and his allies were going to turn the U.S. into a fascist country, similar to what had occurred in Germany after the Reichstag fire which allowed Hitler to gain power. But Butler instead blew the whistle on Bush and his fellow industrialists and bankers.But even with that, the attempted coup never got into our history books. Instead, Bush and and his allies were never arrested for treason, and were even allowed to invest and profit from the Hitler war machine in WWII. Bush was also charged with trading with the enemy in 1942. But that charge was also swept under the carpet. Bush later become a Senator. A couple of his Nazi-sympathizer friends, Allen Dulles (headed the CIA) and John Foster Dulles (Secretary of State under Eisenhower), also had immense power at that time.JFK threatened all that power. So he was eliminated. And now we may see another Bush in the White House in 2016. This time Jeb. This after all the evil and corruption that Poppy and Dumbya have brought the country and the world. It wouldn't be a lot different if Hillary wins in 2016. She is cut from the same CIA-cloth as Jeb.So I'm not very optimistic about history changing. Not with a future that will give us either Jeb or Hillary in the White House in a couple of years. Which would mean yet another CIA-controlled President. Just the like the last four Presidents have been.

[Tom Bigg]

In a real way those fighting for truth on this and many other sites have won their battles; what is left now is the attempt to keep the lights of full disclosure active. There are many casualties of unpaid battles for the truth, the rewards for most never come on this side of the grave. And maybe that is how the Creator intended it, otherwise virtue would always look for tangible rewards.

[Dealey Joe]

Thanks guys, great responses, powerful and thought provoking.

[JDThomas]

Timing is everything.The present CIA admissions about misleading Capitol Hill over the use of torture would be a good issue to Piggy-back on - not straight-away, but before it disappears from the headlines.Within hours of the call for prosecutions there are apologist whining that it would be difficult to secure sufficient evidence for a prosecution (read: nothing to see here). If the CIA has lied here, it is worth pointing-out where they have lied before and that there is nothing new in their behaviour, it is just that they ARE NEVER BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT. Already Dick Chaney is trying to convince the world that the torture policy saved lives (highly questionable), it is also said that this appalling action has actually been a good recruiting tool for extremists, so in the event - HOW MANY LIVES HAS THE TORTURE POLICY COST?They want this issue out of the headlines as soon as possible. People have to make sure that it is not brushed under the carpet then other revelations will follow.

[Bob]

JDThomas wrote:Timing is everything.The present CIA admissions about misleading Capitol Hill over the use of torture would be a good issue to Piggy-back on - not straight-away, but before it disappears from the headlines.Within hours of the call for prosecutions there are apologist whining that it would be difficult to secure sufficient evidence for a prosecution (read: nothing to see here). If the CIA has lied here, it is worth pointing-out where they have lied before and that there is nothing new in their behaviour, it is just that they ARE NEVER BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT. Already Dick Chaney is trying to convince the world that the torture policy saved lives (highly questionable), it is also said that this appalling action has actually been a good recruiting tool for extremists, so in the event - HOW MANY LIVES HAS THE TORTURE POLICY COST?They want this issue out of the headlines as soon as possible. People have to make sure that it is not brushed under the carpet then other revelations will follow.Indeed, JD. But what usually happens when the heat gets too hot in the kitchen for the U.S. government, one which is obviously tied to the hip of the CIA and their bedfellows, is an event to change the subject. An event like a False Flag operation.