Pictures of the Zapruder film

[Dealey Joe]

Carcano is the frequently used name for a series of Italian bolt-action military rifles and carbines. Introduced in 1891, this rifle was chambered for the rimless 6.5×52mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge Actual ballistics of the Manlicher carcano ammo supposedly used in Dealey Plaza is impossible to know, Ammo can be reloded to almost any specification, even the use of Sabot. One of the major problems with the Manlicher bullet it was round nosed and was very unstable and tended to be inaccurate and to tumble.Robert I think we have at least the same evidence as you yourself use siting the Doctors testimony?

[Bob]

Let's also not forget that JFK was wearing a back brace that day, as he had some severe back problems. As I have mentioned a number of times here before in the forum, I herniated a number of discs in my back due to an auto accident several years ago. Actually had to have one replaced a couple years back. Anyway, when I am poked or touched in the back, my reaction is very similar to what JFK did in the limo after he was shot in the back. My hands go upward towards my head and my fists are clinched. It's just a natural reaction.

[RobertP]

Dealey Joe wrote:Carcano is the frequently used name for a series of Italian bolt-action military rifles and carbines. Introduced in 1891, this rifle was chambered for the rimless 6.5×52mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge Actual ballistics of the Manlicher carcano ammo supposedly used in Dealey Plaza is impossible to know, Ammo can be reloded to almost any specification, even the use of Sabot. One of the major problems with the Manlicher bullet it was round nosed and was very unstable and tended to be inaccurate and to tumble.Robert I think we have at least the same evidence as you yourself use siting the Doctors testimony?Hi JoeThere were numerous tests done, both in Europe and America, firing Italian SMI ammunition in Carcano rifles, and it is these tests that were used to establish muzzle velocities for these rifles. Incidentally, the same cartridge was used in the long rifles, short rifles and carbines.The 6.5mm Carcano cartridges manufactured by the Western Cartridge Co. were supposedly made to the same specs as Italian military issue. As I said in a previous post, SA Robert A. Frazier of the FBI purhased a quantity of this ammo, following the assassination and, using a chronograph, established a muzzle velocity for C2766, using WCC ammo, of 2165 fps. As the textbook figure for the short rifle, shooting SMI ammo, is 2200 fps, this figure does not seem unreasonable. Excessive wear and corrosion inside the barrel, plus the WCC bullets being .264" in diameter instead of .268", would allow some blow by of gases and reduce the muzzle velocity accordingly.While the Carcano bullet was round nosed and flat bottomed, and thus had a low ballistic coefficient, it was anything but unstable, due to its narrow diameter and long length. This bullet was used by one elephant hunter in Africa to penetrate the thick skull of elephants without deforming, tumbling or breaking up, to reach the elephant's brain intact. This fact alone makes the charade of JFK's head wound from a Carcano FMJ bullet a complete farce.

[AlanD]

In a recent PSB Nova documentary they had a Carcano bullet penetrate 48 inches of soft pine. So a bullet coming from either location into JFK's back you would expect to exit the front of his chest and hit Connally without any trouble , and continue a downwards trajectory. There was as we all know no exit wound in JFK's chest, so the question has always been where did the bullet go , even Mr DVP has posted on other sites challenging us to explain the bullets path and how it was not magic . We have a series of options to my mind(1) a frangible bullet as mentioned by RobertP in previous posts , which was covered up, once discovered during the autopsy, by failing to carry out a full set proper x-rays and removing organs to cover up the fact the body cavity was full of lead powder. When Oswald only had regular Carcano FMJ bullets, hence conspiracy.(2) the Carcano FMJ bullet clipped a rib as it entered and somehow assumed an upward trajectory to become the throat wound. The bullet then heading off to somewhere in Dealy plaza. Never to be seen again. Good bye magic bullet, since a bullet heading upwards and to the left cannot get to Connally's lower back ,in such a short space.(3) The bullet lodged somehow ,then fell out and became CE399 at Parklands, or the I still believe in Santa Claus theory. I also agree with RobertP that a low powered sabot is not a viable method, some kind of paper patch (aka The Shooter) to disguise Carcano FMJ bullets fired from another type of rifle maybe, but to me CE399 is and was always a plant to tie in Oswalds alleged Carcano rifle. (4) A bullet came from the south end of the knoll through the throat and out the back, the only evidence for this being the hole in the wind screen and a comment from Tosh Plumlee and against it is the finger probing showing the bullet heading downwards. When the autopsy was being carried out, the conspirators were set on the 3 bullet theory , one to the back , one to Connally, one to JFK's head. So why would they want to cover up the back wound , when they did not know about the throat wound because of the tracheotomy until later, and then months later when they gathered the throat wound into the magic bullet theory , when they needed to lose one of the bullets to wound Teague. As it was always intended, the autopsy was an integral part of the conspiracy , leaving us missing vital information 50+ years later and unable to satisfactorily explain the back wound in relation to the throat wound and disprove to the satisfaction of " --- the damage control boys, like Posner & Von Plein?" the magic bullet nonsense.

[Dealey Joe]

where do you think the bullet that struck the windshield frame came into play, could it have been the one that hit JFK from the rear?

[RobertP]

From AlanD"When the autopsy was being carried out, the conspirators were set on the 3 bullet theory , one to the back , one to Connally, one to JFK's head. So why would they want to cover up the back wound , when they did not know about the throat wound because of the tracheotomy until later, and then months later when they gathered the throat wound into the magic bullet theory , when they needed to lose one of the bullets to wound Teague."Hi AlanDThink of it this way. The shooting public had a hard enough time accepting that a 6.5 Carcano FMJ bullet could disintegrate into hundreds of dust like fragments in JFK's skull. Imagine trying to accept that a FMJ bullet went three inches into JFK's right lung and disintegrated into a similar cloud of dustlike fragments, that did not exit. It was far simpler to make up the story of an under powered bullet that barely penetrated the skin of JFk's back than to tell the public JFK was shot in the back with an exotic frangible bullet (or mercury bullet) that no minimum wage employee at the TSBD would ever have access to, let alone in a WCC 6.5mm cartridge. When the SBT became necessary, their options on the back wound were, by a stroke of luck, still open.

[RobertP]

Wow, this forum went from Deadsville to totally active, almost overnight.

[AlanD]

RobertP It's always been an Achilles heal of the case they could never find where Oswald obtained his bullets and indeed how many bullets he obtained nor why there were non left over in any of his accommodation's , not even in the premises of his "friends" the Paines and never mind an exotic frangible bullet. He also had no workshop facilities to re-load his ammo or make a frangible bullet. As Oswald was getting $1.25 an hour at the time say $60 per 40 hour week, and if he was the LN would not the cheapest and most anonymous way to get a decent rifle be go to a pawn shop or second hand shop and get something approaching decent with a wider range of ammo available. Why a rifle no one had ever heard of which was just starting to be imported into the country and would make obtaining the most essential part of the rifle , the bullets difficult.As to the damage to the chrome strip and the windscreen , there are 3 options 1) chrome strip the fragment that became CE567 or CE569. I do not think there was enough damage to the strip for it to be a full bullet .2) windscreen possible front shot from south knoll or a hit from fragment CE567 or CE5693) combination option 1 and windscreen south knoll shot due to through and through hole.as to where CE567 & CE569 came from it's either the head shot or the Connally shot.

[dankbaar]

There was no south knoll shot.I am saying - defying the ruling consensus in the JFK research community - that the throat wound was NOT an entry wound , but an EXIT wound caused by a fragment from the explosive bullet that hit JFK in the head from the grassy knoll. I have always believed it was caused by a complete bullet from the front, until Thom Robinson freed me from that dream. Question: you are doctor with experience on bullet wounds, you see a tiny neat little round hole in a throat. What would you think first? 1) This is an entry wound of a small caliber bullet 2) This is an exit wound from a fragment of an explosive bullet that hit in the head. Mind you, the doctors didn't know about about an explosive bullet, let alone a mercury bullet. No, I don't blame the doctors at all. If it looks like duck, if it walks like a duck, if it sounds like duck, you're going to say it's a duck. JFK was NOT shot in the throat. I too have believed for a long time that he was shot in the throat. But it didn't happen. The only time that JFK COULD have been shot in the throat, was very early in the game, at the beginning of the Zapruder film. Why? Because after that, he slumps forward and his throat is not exposed anymore. It doesn't make sense for ANY shooter, not even a trigger happy one, to shoot from the front that early, if the plan was to frame a patsy from BEHIND. Moreover, it would be an EXTREMELY risky shot right thru the windshield (glass breaks the line of vision, and could also deflect the bullet path). The bullet hole, crack or whatever it was in the windshield, was the result from a missed bullet from behind over JFK's head. Just as the nick in the chrome lining was. Additionally, his head and throat would be exposed for only a very short time, with no time to follow and aim. And the other passengers were in the way, JFK was the most rear passenger in the limo, hence an additional risk to hit someone else in the car. Finally, there was no wound of exit, neither a bullet found for such a shot. The throat wound was caused by an exiting fragment , maybe even a drop of mercury from JF's mercury explosive bullet. Mercury is a heavy liquid metal. The tiny perforations in JFK's face, as observed by embalmer Thom Robinson, were also the result of exiting mercury drops in my opinion. Lastly, what you don't know is that I have conducted a video interview with Thom Robinson, wherein he states that the gaping hole in JFK's skull was probed with a tiny probe and that one of those probes from INSIDE the skull came out at the throat wound ! That's why he told me that he has always been very quiet about this, but that he has chuckled for all those years at the conspiracy buffs who claim JFK was shot in the throat from the front. He knew better since 1963. And I know better since I spoke to him. I should have known better earlier by listening to Jimmy, instead of to the JFK research community, and what they have brainwashed themselves with. I too was a victim of what I wanted to believe, and looked so self-evident. James Files was right all along. He was the ONLY shooter from the front, and even he was not supposed to shoot. But he did, because JFK had not been hit in the head. Failure was never an option in a operation that Jimmy took part in, not even at age 21. That's what made him such a valuable asset for the Chicago mob and the CIA. ONeill in his official report said agent Kellerman, now deceased, told him that Kennedy cried out, "My God, Ive been hit, get me to a hospital!" The second bullet hit Texas Gov. John Connally, sitting in a jump seat behind Kellerman. The third was the fatal wound to Kennedy. ONeill said recently in an interview that Kellerman insisted, when pressed how he knew it was Kennedy's voice, "I was with the man for three years, and know his voice like I know my own. And he was the only man in the back seat of the car that day who spoke with a Boston accent." Click here to view source for above article Hence another clue JFK was NOT shot in the throat and Jimmy was correct in assuming the throat wound was an exiting fragment from his exploding bullet. Kennedy could never have spoken with a bullet in his throat. Wim

[Bob]

I am in agreement with Wim about this subject. In fact...look at Thom Robinson's notes from the autopsy:Notice that Robinson notes two small shrapnel wounds on JFK's face. Those wounds also came from the mercury load.