Who Gave the Order?

[John Zeroski]

I was recently skimming the latest Harrison Livingstone contribution to the Kennedy assassination literature, when I was stopped in my tracks by a sentence that occurs on page 5 of the Introduction:

Without authority, the Secret Service took immediate control of the evidence, starting with the body, which was seized at gunpoint from the Texas authorities, ......

I recalled a mid-1990's book wherein the author claims the same thing, that because of some kind of "loyalty" to their dead president, the Secret Service removed the body without authority.

However, this is such a crucial issue, at least to me, that it would be extremely important to know how anyone can validate this bit of information AS A FACT. How do these two published authors know this to be true?? There is simply no reason to believe this to be the truth. None whatsoever. It is exremely difficult to understand why this question was not resolved forty years ago, when it may have been possible to get at an answer.

On the contrary, for anyone who has worked for the federal government, exactly the opposite must be the truth. In a rigid, structured pecking order organization, the first rule which governs organizational "relationships" is that one must obey orders. Insubordination is the chief way to get into serious trouble with your employer. And the Secret Service people were organization men.

One response to my topic question might be that the Special Agent in Charge at the White House that Friday may have given the order. But then again, he is also just another link in the organizational structure. He might certainly have been the one in contact with someone at Parkland that day, and passed on the order he had received.

But who would have been in the position that day to give the order to pull the body out of Dallas? It's clear that the Secret Service in 1963 was under the direction of the Department of the Treasury. It would seem the most logical assumption to make was that the head of this Department would be the one to give this order through one of his subordinates.

And for anyone studying the group called the Council on Foreign Relations, they know this person was none other than Douglas Dillon, a very important insider of this organization.

[tom jeffers]

good question. james rowley was director of the secret service starting in 1961 up until nixon. it would seem to me that lbj had his hand in this mess from the start. he is top of the chain of command after kennedy was killed but i don't know who for sure was steering things.

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

08.27.2010Dear JFK Murder Solved Forum Members and Readers:08.09.2006 - John Zeroski Posted this very interesting Headline, and his powerful query with authoritative points of information about the Secret Service aggressively taking control of the evidence, i.e., JFK'S body, at gun point from Texas authorities. Is this true ? Did they act under their own authority, or under authority from another "authoritative source ?"08.12.2006 - Tom Jeffers supplemented this thread with James Rowley as the Director of the Secret Service from 1961 - 1968.Any additional analyses, interviews, investigations, readings, research, studies, thoughts, or writings on any aspect of this Subject Matter ?Bear in mind that we are trying to attract and educate a Whole New Generation of JFK Researcher's who maynot be as well versed as ou.Comments ?Respectfully,BB.

[Kit Carp]

I've always found this astounding and pivotal moment on that dark day to be incredibly revealing as to the nature of the plot at hand. Think about it. The Secret Service had just completely blown their job. They stood motionlessly for 8 seconds, slowed the car down, and did everything but paint a big bullseye on Kennedy's head for the shooters. Motorcycles pull back right at the key moment. One of the Secret Service guys, wanting to hop on Kennedy's side of the car, is forced to stay behind at Love Field...yet, in the Secret Service reports after the shooting, he is listed as being "in the followup car" and other agents also state he is there. If there wasnt that film of him getting left behind, and photos showing him missing, no one would be the wiser.Then, once the President was fatally shot in the head, and driver Greer gets a really good look "to make sure", they all rush frantically to the hospital, pretending to do their job, and suddenly, are bound and determined to make sure his dead body isnt given a legal and proper autopsy by an honest, objective and qualified forensic pathologist.They are dead serious about this, drawing weapons when Dr. Rose showed up to perform his perfectly legal, expected, normal task. It very nearly came to people getting shot.What would compel these guys to do this? Oughten they instead have turned their concerns to protecting Jackie? Was someone going to hurt Kennedy more? These guys were professionals, why pull guns on unarmed Dr. Rose...he was the damn Medical Examiner!This absolutely happened, and the story exists in over a half dozen accounts by various witnesses who participated in the quite dastardly and very illegal theft of the fallen President's body.By every account, SA Roy Kellerman, (who sat beside driver Greer and also later was frontman checking people in at the autopsy), loudly started the sequence, denying the competant Dallas county medical Examiner his lawful duty. This was so illegal, outrageous and downright suspicious that Dr, Rose freaked out himself and started yelling for help, quoting the law, and acting like a man who was determined to follow the law...because obviously, someone...maybe a bunch of people had just assassinated the President of the United States, and maybe those people wanted to get away with it!There was actually tugging on the gurney the dead president lay on, and guns were drawn. Manchester's cleaned up account only suggests the dire nature of the moment. Eventually, Dr. Burkley, who soon after the event would be promoted to the highest Admiral position available, stepped in, backing up Kellerman in his unlawful shenanigans, pretending to represent Mrs. Kennedy, who obviously, was in complete shock, and in no state to make any decisions about anything.I dont know who "gave the original order", but Doc Burkley was ranking high enough to answer to few people. He and Kellerman damn themselves, in my eyes, in this event alone, without the gobs of other evidence implicating them in this crime. The whole scene stinks of Julius Caesar to me.Aubrey Rike, working for O'Neal's funeral home, paints a vivid picture of the terrifying scene. of the illegal theft of the President's corpse.***Aubrey Rike in an interview- "I was scared to death...I was scared all the time I was there....Dallas wanted to do an autopsy. The government wanted the casket out. The government said 'Take it out!'; Dallas said 'Bring it back!. You know, we'd start pushing, and someone would grab us, and push us back, and pull the casket back, You'd have to see it to believe it.""If you had been there, no kidding, it was the most unorganized, scary type situation I have ever been in my life, I'm a policeman now, and I've been up against all kinds of stuff."***Dr. Earl Rose, the Dallas County Medical Examiner, refused to budge, until guns were drawn and his life was threatened. He summed it up thusly-"You cant lose the chain of evidence!"And that , my friends, is exactly what the point of the entire exercise was.The conspirators, some of whom were here, needed to get the president's body to a place where they could precisely control the direction the autopsy went. They didnt want a competant and neutral and most especially an uncontrolled doctor. That is why they picked a guy who wasnt even a forensic pathologist, someone who belonged to the navy and wasnt of too high of a rank, but one with a bright future laying before him.They knew Dr. Humes had never done even one autopsy on a gunshot victim, that they could order him to shut up, and do whatever the hell they told him. He was navy, he was an orderly Catholic used to authority. Tell him it's for his country, paint him a heroic picture of saving the country from a war with the dirty Russians who did this, by laying the blame on a lone gunman.Same trick Johnson used on Earl Warren to excellent effect.And that is why the Secret Service changed from lackadaisical guardians looking the other way, while the president was alive, into gun toting desperados when someone tried to get him an honest autopsy after his brains were blown all over the Dallas streets.That last is my opinion, of course.But, there is no doubt at all, that these SS guys drew guns to keep Kennedy's body out of the hands of a lawful autopsy by a competant Medical Examiner...only to put it into the hands by a novice working under the gaze and direct orders of the highest brass in the entire country.

[Phil Dragoo]

BREAKDOWN OF SECRET SERVICEHIERARCHY and INFRASTRUCTURECompiled by Vince Palamarahttp://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/03-VP.htmlThere is a wealth of information on this page.Secret Service Deputy Chief Paul J. Paterni worked with OSS in WWII with James Angleton and Ray Rocca; was liason to Warren Commission.Agent Emory Roberts ordered Agent Rybka off the limo at Love Field in the infamous video; ordered Agent Ready and all others to remain motionless during shots. Hill disobeyed Roberts in his four moves to the limo rear step on Elm and prior. Roberts usurped Kellerman's authority at Parkland hence would have been his order to take body.Roberts later told a researcher he considered Kennedy “a traitor.”Route change 18-19, publicized by Moyers who was very receptive to Rostow's suggestion of Commission.Hill on limo sees rear of JFK's head on seat.Could not have been done without SS.Many security stripping changes made that morning at Love Field and later blamed on JFK by agents, Connally. Bolden has painted a picture of the SS as being hostile, hateful and disrespectful towards JFK. I posit this was selectively true, and was no small factor.Greer stopped the limo until the head shots, disobeying Kellerman's order to proceed.Kellerman claims JFK exclaimed, “My God, I am hit.”Nellie Connally saw his hands go up to his throat before the sign. He was shot in the throat. He didn't exclaim anything.Kellerman is lying. One more dirty agent.

[barney 1961]

8/27/10 I have little doubt, that as Kennedy was beating his final heartbeats in the ER, if there actually were any heartbeats left, then I suspect without proof, that via an Open line to Washington DC passed along instructions "from LBJ, to Jerry Behn and Rowley, Roberts, Kellerman, to lets get the corpse in a casket, and off to Love Field loaded up, sworn in by a fed. judge, and asap, and then lets get theF--K outta Dodge with this corpse, oh, yes sooner than later please." By the way, pull the switches on the phones and other utilites sonobody knows what is going on, or what we're doing while enroute to DC."

[Bob]

I'll say this again until I'm blue in the face...Please read Doug Horne's book...It will provide many answers about many things, including this subject matter.

[barney 1961]

8/28/10Bob; Numerous eyewitnesses heard a helicopter land and fly away from the military airfield where Air Force One landed with the emptycasket of K, along with the newly sworn in LBJ andhis entourage, along with the widow of K and heer empty casket she guarded sovaliantly all the way from Dallas' Love Field totally unaware that the switch had been effected during the gathering and conducting ofthe swearing in ceremony in the largest area on the plane, which all told, took anywhere from 30 minutes to 45 minutes, not countingextra time for photo sessions of the dignitaries lauding over LBJ. The fallen president's corpse was transferred to DC most likely in afollowup military jet which arrived in DC at least one hour or more at Andrews AFB/ The Walter Reed docs and morticians needed time to remove the presidents brain, move the wounds, create wounds, and in general screw the real autopsy results that would occur later that night at Bethesda Naval Hospital. There were two caskets, two planes, two autopsies, two ambulances, used to carry out this nefarious series of historical events to ensure that the American taxpayer and the American citizenry would never know the truth of 11-22-1963. History seldom records a more neatly tied up with a ribbon assassination been carried out, even down to the alleged assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald. Here we have a self proclaimed "patsy" being railroaded into playing the role of the court jester and fool, playing his part well &terminated before a grand jury could indict, nor an prosecutor bringing this to trial. The suspect of killing a police officer and a president in one day of lone nut madness many claim, as does the Warren Executioners of Reputations, all because he loved Castro, all because he wasmad about his military discharge papers as an undesirable, all because the govt. had refused to permit him to return to Russia with hisRussian born wife and two children. How much sense does this make for a lonely book depository worker, living the American dream in a room, living on $1.25 per hour wages, loading and stacking school books, when he could have been back in Russia living a life of ease andcomfort at the Radio factory where he was given Red Cross stipends plus his salary, which together exceeded the pay of the plant manager.Frankly, to most of us, none of the reasons stated about Oswald, makes very much sense at all, so we conspiracy nutjobs have other axesto grind away on, maybe for another 47 years or more. This fall, had he lived, JFK would celebrate his 93rd birthday on Cape Cod.

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

07.30.2015Dear JFK Murder Solved Forum Members and Readers:09.09.2006 - John Zeroski Posted this Important, Focused Headline.A short, but very powerful discussion followed by some of the Best Past and Present JFKMSForum Members.Facts, Opinions, and Points of Information provided here are all worth reviewing and studying.I have always believed that JFK was instantly dead with the Head Shot. DEAD. PERIOD.THE SPECIFIC KILL ORDERS ON JFK WERE FOR A HEAD SHOT. JFK WAS NOT TO LEAVE DEALEYPLAZA ALIVE. PERIOD.The phones in Washington, D.C. simultaneously went down for approximately one (1) hour. I don't believe in coincidences like that, do you ?I always further believed that The Cover Up for The Assassination of JFK was already In Full GearIMMEDIATELY upon the arrival of JFK's dead, limp as spaghetti body at Parkland Hospital.I have NEVER believed that Anybody Valiantly tried to save JFK. He was DEAD. AND NOT BRAINDEAD - HE HAD NO BRAIN. THAT'S REALLY, REALLY DEAD.The Tentacles of The Octopus of the Cover-Up of the JFK Assassination began to expand and take control and hold of everything as needed. Only CIA and Military Training could function in thattype of MASH UNIT ENVIRONMENT.Any additional analyses, interviews, investigations, readings, research, studies, thoughts, or writingson any aspect of this Subject Matter ?Bear in mind that we are trying to attract and educate a Whole New Generation of JFK Researcher'swho may not be as well versed as you.Comments ?Respectfully,BB.