My new film The Grassy Knoll

[Dealey Joe]

KirkLike it or not we live in a capatalistic nation.What that means is that you and I have the right to receive a payment for our efforts and investmentrs.It really is a pretty good system as anytrhing else means your labors and earnings can be taken from youand redistributed to you neighbors and others.We are also a humanatarian society who helps others when they re in need.what our government has almost succeded to do is to change our way of life and replace it with socialismThere are some advantages to socialism, you don'y have to worry about working or having insurance or owning property as everything is redistributed by the government.The only problem I have trouble with is at what point does the workers get tired of carrying the loafers on their backs?

[turtleman]

I was curious Joe has to how the middle and lower echelon of the socio-economic ladder has had their lives enhanced in any way. My understanding is that socialism is a redistribution of wealth. Maybe you are talking about that redistribution going up to the rich. The Republicans always called it trickle down economics but we know what that is code for. Nothing has changed for me in the last year be it good or bad or socialism for that matter. So I am looking forward to seeing how my pitiful ass has been helped by the closet socialist president. I actually think this country could use a little dose of socialism. For what we have now is nothing short of a plutocracy and we are heading right down the old shitter. We have a government that cannot do anything for its people for the government itself chiefly through Congress is owned by corporate America. And with the Supreme Court decision of last Friday look the F out. Here it comes.Just line those examples of socialism out for me Joe. Around here if you are hard pressed for money or don't have a job things can be pretty miserable. I obviously have missed something in this last year. Stupid me was distracted by warrantless wiretapping, torture, suspension of Habeas Corpus, the government snooping into my internet browser and credit card statements and bailing out the crooked bankers. And we won't mention the obscure and nebulous "War on Terror" that we have been sold. How did they slide that socialism by me?

[ChristophMessner]

turtleman wrote:... Stupid me was distracted by warrantless wiretapping, torture, suspension of Habeas Corpus, ... No! Intelligent you! Dealey Joe wrote:... at what point does the workers get tired of carrying the loafers on their backs? Yes, that is the question! So far, the workers build giant useless pyramids just for the posthume reputation of the pharao and even the whips don't make them refuse and uprise.

[andries]

Whips or not,i,m out off work right now after 32 years But it isnt sutch a hard job being out off work in holland, as being unemployed in the US i ques. Still A POOR FACT ?

[Kirk]

Joe, I know where you are coming from, and I am not against making money. Most people are not against making money, but they are against paying money to a degree. I was just pointing out that the technology that makes the forum possible has always made it possible for others to not pay copywrites etc. Of course being my age and the way I was raised, I would never think of taking something without permission or payment, especially since I am musician as well, but I am apparently in the minority now. I ran a music store for a number of years, and I would get 30 cds a day from artist and labels to listen to or play instore. Many managers would turn around and sale them, but I never could because I know it was coming out of the musician pocket. We will see, if the internet helps to create or helps to destroy. On the socialist and capitalist debate, I think we need both, and that neither could live without the other, but the devil is in the details.Dealey Joe wrote:KirkLike it or not we live in a capatalistic nation.What that means is that you and I have the right to receive a payment for our efforts and investmentrs.It really is a pretty good system as anytrhing else means your labors and earnings can be taken from youand redistributed to you neighbors and others.We are also a humanatarian society who helps others when they re in need.what our government has almost succeded to do is to change our way of life and replace it with socialismThere are some advantages to socialism, you don'y have to worry about working or having insurance or owning property as everything is redistributed by the government.The only problem I have trouble with is at what point does the workers get tired of carrying the loafers on their backs?

[Kirk]

Chris, I like that. The pyramids always makes me think of a couple of things. One you can't take it with you after all, and that you can build pretty much anything, but the maintenance will kill you.ChristophMessner wrote:turtleman wrote:... Stupid me was distracted by warrantless wiretapping, torture, suspension of Habeas Corpus, ... No! Intelligent you! Dealey Joe wrote:... at what point does the workers get tired of carrying the loafers on their backs? Yes, that is the question! So far, the workers build giant useless pyramids just for the posthume reputation of the pharao and even the whips don't make them refuse and uprise.

[Dealey Joe]

Kirk and all I can only speak from my own life.I made decisions as life went by. my fathers passion was music but he could not support a wife, family or himself.It just did not pay.It affected him all his life but he did not let it affect his decision to find emmployment that would provide.A good example was a musician I knew personally, Bobby Helms, has songs that are sill popular and still being played today, one was Jingle Bell RockSpent his life playing in dance halls and saloonsfinally sold all his rights to his music for $10,000died a pauper. his right to stay in music was his decision but not a proffitable one.There were those who found a place that let them stay in musice but i am sure had a tough time making it.I learned pretty quickly in life that I did not desire to work manual labor by the hour even though I wasa union man and worked in the highest paid construction trade at that time.Loved sales work and done well in that but did not like the constant strain woking for others making a living on what I did.What i am saying it was my decision that I made during my life that I must live with today.I believe we all have the ability to decide what and where we are and what we become.no one owed me anything nor to my knowlege gave me anything.my findings are that everyone is where they are, doing what they are doing, because that is what they choose to do.i had to learn to be a capitalist trying to survive in a society moving like a downhill racer toward socialism.that is my take and the way I live and have lived. i am not wealthy by any means but I enjoy retirement byworking harder doing what I want to do,check out my web site http://www.mountaindogpuppy.com

[Kirk]

Understood Joe,I am many things besides a songwriter. UT employee and farmer. I think for some music is not a choice. I have given up music more times then I can count, but started over just more time. I believe in purpose and yes being responsible. No matter how difficult it has been. I feel very fortunate, and I may not have made a real living from music, but it did keep me alive. As for the give and take of copywrite on the internet it is an unknown, and sort of capitalist as well. Capitalism is partly about getting the best of someone else, and taking stuff without permission is a steal for some. Me, it is all about respect really. How could say I agree or appreciate someone or their work, and turn around and take it from them. Still a lost leader often brings in a lot of followers.Dealey Joe wrote:Kirk and all I can only speak from my own life.I made decisions as life went by. my fathers passion was music but he could not support a wife, family or himself.It just did not pay.It affected him all his life but he did not let it affect his decision to find emmployment that would provide.A good example was a musician I knew personally, Bobby Helms, has songs that are sill popular and still being played today, one was Jingle Bell RockSpent his life playing in dance halls and saloonsfinally sold all his rights to his music for $10,000died a pauper. his right to stay in music was his decision but not a proffitable one.There were those who found a place that let them stay in musice but i am sure had a tough time making it.I learned pretty quickly in life that I did not desire to work manual labor by the hour even though I wasa union man and worked in the highest paid construction trade at that time.Loved sales work and done well in that but did not like the constant strain woking for others making a living on what I did.What i am saying it was my decision that I made during my life that I must live with today.I believe we all have the ability to decide what and where we are and what we become.no one owed me anything nor to my knowlege gave me anything.my findings are that everyone is where they are, doing what they are doing, because that is what they choose to do.i had to learn to be a capitalist trying to survive in a society moving like a downhill racer toward socialism.that is my take and the way I live and have lived. i am not wealthy by any means but I enjoy retirement byworking harder doing what I want to do,check out my web site http://www.mountaindogpuppy.com

[andries]

Dealey Joe wrote:Kirk and all I can only speak from my own life.I made decisions as life went by. my fathers passion was music but he could not support a wife, family or himself.It just did not pay.It affected him all his life but he did not let it affect his decision to find emmployment that would provide.A good example was a musician I knew personally, Bobby Helms, has songs that are sill popular and still being played today, one was Jingle Bell RockSpent his life playing in dance halls and saloonsfinally sold all his rights to his music for $10,000died a pauper. his right to stay in music was his decision but not a proffitable one.There were those who found a place that let them stay in musice but i am sure had a tough time making it.I learned pretty quickly in life that I did not desire to work manual labor by the hour even though I wasa union man and worked in the highest paid construction trade at that time.Loved sales work and done well in that but did not like the constant strain woking for others making a living on what I did.What i am saying it was my decision that I made during my life that I must live with today.I believe we all have the ability to decide what and where we are and what we become.no one owed me anything nor to my knowlege gave me anything.my findings are that everyone is where they are, doing what they are doing, because that is what they choose to do.i had to learn to be a capitalist trying to survive in a society moving like a downhill racer toward socialism.that is my take and the way I live and have lived. i am not wealthy by any means but I enjoy retirement byworking harder doing what I want to do,check out my web site http://www.mountaindogpuppy.comJoe i visit the bernes alps switserland a few times a year so it,s impossible for me to avoid those magnificient dogs,i prever the shortheared type solid as a rock

[Dealey Joe]

[quote="Kirk"]Understood Joe,I am many things besides a songwriter. UT employee and farmer. I think for some music is not a choice. I have given up music more times then I can count, but started over just more time. I believe in purpose and yes being responsible. No matter how difficult it has been. I feel very fortunate, and I may not have made a real living from music, but it did keep me alive. As for the give and take of copywrite on the internet it is an unknown, and sort of capitalist as well. Capitalism is partly about getting the best of someone else, and taking stuff without permission is a steal for some. Me, it is all about respect really. How could say I agree or appreciate someone or their work, and turn around and take it from them. Still a lost leader often brings in a lot of followers.[quote="Dealey Joe"]Kirk and all kirkI understand, there are those who are out to profit from the hard work of others.but there also are those who do not.I don't see capitalism as a means to take advantage of others.That is dishonest and works no matterwhat society you live under, there are always the greedy and the dishonest.there is nothing dishonest about making a honest profit.It is basicly supply and demand.I know people who have been perfectly happy to take a laborers job and live their entire life that wayraising a family and enjoy the simple life.