Would anyone believe me if I said there were 11-13 shots fired that day?
Z155-Shot 1(Fired from the TSBD-Oswald Window): Misses the limousine completely. The bullet goes through the oak tree and strikes the sidewalk on Elm Street, then goes on to strike the street.
Z186-Shot 2(Fired from the South Knoll): Went through the limousine's windshield and struck Kennedy in the throat. The bullet doesn't exit.
Z208-Shot 3(Fired from the Pergola): Struck the road sign.
Z223-Shot 4(Fired from the TSBD-Western end window): Missed and Kennedy and struck Governor Connally in the back. His wrist was not shattered at this time.
Z226-Shot 5(Fired from the TSBD-Oswald window): Struck Kennedy in the back, doesn't exit.
Z238-Shot 6(Fired from the Dal-Tex building): Missed the limousine and struck a curb on Main Street. James Tague was struck by bullet fragments.
Z285-Shot 7(Fired from the Dallas County Records building): Struck the floorpan of the limousine.
Z313-Shot 8(Fired from the TSBD-Oswald window): Struck Kennedy in the head.
Z314-Shot 9(Fired from behind the fence on the North Knoll): Struck Kennedy in the head.
Z316-Shot 10(Fired by Badge Man on the North Knoll): Missed the limousine and struck a manhole cover.The bullet was later found in the grass and was picked up by a man in a dark suit.
Z320-Shot 11(Fired from the Dal-Tex building): Missed everyone in the limousine and struck the limousine's roof frame.
Z328-Shot 12(Fired from the TSBD-Western end window): Struck Connally's right wrist and left thigh.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/51/herman/herman16.html
BOOM..BOOM.BOOM..BOOM.BOOM.BOOM....BOOM...BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
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John Bruno
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Tommy Bullgotti
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
In my opinion... no it is not believeable. Keep in mind they have around 8-10 seconds to fire their shots at JFK. These are professional rifleman shooting at a target moving less than 20 MPH.If it doesn't hit Kennedy, it is a miss. To say that 2 different shots caused the wounds to Connally alone, is 2 misses right there. Then the manhole cover, the floor of the car, the chrome frame, Elm St, and Main St. That's 5 misses. A total of 7. 4 hits to JFK. 7 misses, a total of 11 shots. The most noise heard by bystanders was 8 shots. I understand there was a great deal of confusion. But, presuming that at least 1/16th of the ear witnesses were about right in there testimony... We must stay within a reasonable amount of shots here. Some 'misses' are merely myths. Sure it is possible that a bullet struck the grass opposite of Elm, but all there is to say of it is the 'shadow' agents who interrogated Jean Hill, and a photograph of some Dallas policeman and investigators scavenging through the grass(probably looking for skull bones). The manhole cover again is strictly in doubt. A photograph showing a small knick in it, and a few people saying that it was a bullet, is not trustworthy. The floorpan of the car, any photos? Who said there was a hole there? What lead to that belief? I have not heard of it from any witness nor photograph. Just from some peoples theories. The hole on Elm was confirmed by nearby witnesses, and even a few policeman. So that miss is not at all in doubt. The miss to Main St. is not at all in doubt as there are photos of it, and Mr. Tague himself was wounded. The chrome frame over the windshield COULD be from a missed shot, but it also COULD be from a fragment to the headshot. Along with the windshield crack. If a bullet struck the windshield prior to the headshot(the throat wound), it would come very very close to hitting Greer and Connally. In fact, it was Mr. Kellerman who said at the time of the headwound a "volley" of shots came down on the limosine, indicated that he may be refering to the double headshot, and possibly the windshield damage and the chrome frame damage.
To fit the plot theory of professional/hitman gunman hired to take JFK out has to stay within a certain criteria. The true orchestarters of this all had a specific idea as to what they wanted to happen. The hitman were given specific intructions. The frontal gunman was only to fire if necessary. The rear shooters were suppose to take JFK out. Personally, I believe Mr. Nicoletti, like Files, was told to only fire if the TSBD shooters miss. The plot requires the patsy. That is the problem with a lot of conspiracy theories. They get so wrapped up in "who might of done it" that they work their way outside the basic conspiracy idea that has been in question for so many years. The TSBD shooter(s) could fire as many shots as required. Oswald's weapon holds 5 shots. The Oswald position shooter fired 3 shots. Missing 1 time, hitting JFK in the back 1 time, and in the head 1 time. If there was a West Window sniper which I believe there was, then he fired 1 shot, that hit Connally in the back. The Dal-Tex shooter fired 1 shot that missed, and hit Main St. The Knoll shooter fired 1 shot that kid JFK in the head.
This is just my personal opinion based on what I have read, and seen in the case. I believe any theories that consist of more than 8 shots is bending the idea of conspiracy, into cuckoo. One must stay with known evidence(not W.C. evidence, evidence gathered through the years by independent investigators). 3 shots from the nest, at least one from the knoll, then fill in the holes with known facts.
Of course, that's just my theory.
To fit the plot theory of professional/hitman gunman hired to take JFK out has to stay within a certain criteria. The true orchestarters of this all had a specific idea as to what they wanted to happen. The hitman were given specific intructions. The frontal gunman was only to fire if necessary. The rear shooters were suppose to take JFK out. Personally, I believe Mr. Nicoletti, like Files, was told to only fire if the TSBD shooters miss. The plot requires the patsy. That is the problem with a lot of conspiracy theories. They get so wrapped up in "who might of done it" that they work their way outside the basic conspiracy idea that has been in question for so many years. The TSBD shooter(s) could fire as many shots as required. Oswald's weapon holds 5 shots. The Oswald position shooter fired 3 shots. Missing 1 time, hitting JFK in the back 1 time, and in the head 1 time. If there was a West Window sniper which I believe there was, then he fired 1 shot, that hit Connally in the back. The Dal-Tex shooter fired 1 shot that missed, and hit Main St. The Knoll shooter fired 1 shot that kid JFK in the head.
This is just my personal opinion based on what I have read, and seen in the case. I believe any theories that consist of more than 8 shots is bending the idea of conspiracy, into cuckoo. One must stay with known evidence(not W.C. evidence, evidence gathered through the years by independent investigators). 3 shots from the nest, at least one from the knoll, then fill in the holes with known facts.
Of course, that's just my theory.
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John Bruno
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Tommy Bullgotti
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Exaclty..... 'What if?' Well, what if the Zapruder film was edited to fit the LNer theory? What if A S.S. agent in the follow up car really did discharge is AR-15 and accidentally shot JFK in the head during the shooting?
And of course, what if Oswald did it all by himself?
A what if can be put on everything. But yes, I suppose silencers could have been used, however I extremely doubt it. Files makes no mention of Nicoletti using a silenced weapon. The only person to give testimony to a South Knoll shot was Mr. Plumlee wasit not? And he said it was a rifle shot. Unsilenced. So I suppose that the Records sniper, if there was even one, could have used a silencer. I suppose the Perloga shooter could of used a silencer.
However, we are sure about several things in this case.
1. The Grassy Knoll shooter could not of used a silencer. Seeing as witnesses heard gunshots from there.
2. The dictabelt recording that many conspiracy theorists hail as absolute proof, has 6 or 7 impulses on it. However, only 4 could be proven as gunshots(or that is all they wish to of proven).
3. Most witnesses did hear only 3 shots. But many heard 4. Some heard 6 And a couple heard 8. This indicates mass confusion in the Plaza, no one really knows what is going on.
4. If a bullet struck JFK in the neck, fired from a high powered rifle, hitting the soft throat tissue, and not exiting is simply unlikely. If it hit a bone structure and became lodged, then maybe. However this is not the case.
5. Keep in mind... many witnesses did not specify the source of the shots. They simply say, from the rear, or up and behind. This could literally be any building behind the limo. Indicating that other rifles were used without silencers from behind.
6. All the listed misses other than Elm and Main st. are in doubt. There is nothing to go for them, or against them. They are simply just 'what if' ideas. The bullet miss opposite of Elm could be explained by investigators looking for skull fragments. The miss on the manhole cover could have always been there, and not caused by a bullet. The floorpan of the car is still a mystery to me. I know nothing of anyone saying any such thing.
7. Kellerman said that a 'volley' of shots came down upon the limosine at the tome of the headshot. This could very welll explain the chrome and windshield damage. However it could go either way. Could be caused by fragments from the headshot, or it could be missed shots.
Overall, it is very unlikely that more than 7-8 shots were fired at JFK. It is also very unlikely that the throat wound was caused by a frontal shot. It is highley unlikely that the professional hitman had worse accuracy than Oswald. It is highly unlikely based on ear testimony, wound locations, films, and common sense, that more than 3-4 assassins fired an excess of 8 shots in the plaza that day.
The plot has to remain reasonable. They are trying to pin it on ONE man with a 5 shot maximum magazine. Not to mention that there was only 4 bullets in the Carcano. Sure a cover-up can conceal anything. BUT they did not want to risk getting caught by anyone who could leak the truth anywhere. Let's say there was a Perloga shooter. He fires. All of a sudden, Zapruder decides to turn around, or Ms. Sitzman looks over and sees the gunman. The first thing they would do is yell out we see him or get him.. to the policeman. Even worse, they could have caught him on film. Boom, there goes the plot. Same with the Records building sniper... they wouldn't want to get the shooting conspiracy so vast that everyone in the entire Black Ops department of the government was shooting. They would want to keep in minimal, but also necessary to get the job done.
Of course, that is just my theory.
And of course, what if Oswald did it all by himself?
A what if can be put on everything. But yes, I suppose silencers could have been used, however I extremely doubt it. Files makes no mention of Nicoletti using a silenced weapon. The only person to give testimony to a South Knoll shot was Mr. Plumlee wasit not? And he said it was a rifle shot. Unsilenced. So I suppose that the Records sniper, if there was even one, could have used a silencer. I suppose the Perloga shooter could of used a silencer.
However, we are sure about several things in this case.
1. The Grassy Knoll shooter could not of used a silencer. Seeing as witnesses heard gunshots from there.
2. The dictabelt recording that many conspiracy theorists hail as absolute proof, has 6 or 7 impulses on it. However, only 4 could be proven as gunshots(or that is all they wish to of proven).
3. Most witnesses did hear only 3 shots. But many heard 4. Some heard 6 And a couple heard 8. This indicates mass confusion in the Plaza, no one really knows what is going on.
4. If a bullet struck JFK in the neck, fired from a high powered rifle, hitting the soft throat tissue, and not exiting is simply unlikely. If it hit a bone structure and became lodged, then maybe. However this is not the case.
5. Keep in mind... many witnesses did not specify the source of the shots. They simply say, from the rear, or up and behind. This could literally be any building behind the limo. Indicating that other rifles were used without silencers from behind.
6. All the listed misses other than Elm and Main st. are in doubt. There is nothing to go for them, or against them. They are simply just 'what if' ideas. The bullet miss opposite of Elm could be explained by investigators looking for skull fragments. The miss on the manhole cover could have always been there, and not caused by a bullet. The floorpan of the car is still a mystery to me. I know nothing of anyone saying any such thing.
7. Kellerman said that a 'volley' of shots came down upon the limosine at the tome of the headshot. This could very welll explain the chrome and windshield damage. However it could go either way. Could be caused by fragments from the headshot, or it could be missed shots.
Overall, it is very unlikely that more than 7-8 shots were fired at JFK. It is also very unlikely that the throat wound was caused by a frontal shot. It is highley unlikely that the professional hitman had worse accuracy than Oswald. It is highly unlikely based on ear testimony, wound locations, films, and common sense, that more than 3-4 assassins fired an excess of 8 shots in the plaza that day.
The plot has to remain reasonable. They are trying to pin it on ONE man with a 5 shot maximum magazine. Not to mention that there was only 4 bullets in the Carcano. Sure a cover-up can conceal anything. BUT they did not want to risk getting caught by anyone who could leak the truth anywhere. Let's say there was a Perloga shooter. He fires. All of a sudden, Zapruder decides to turn around, or Ms. Sitzman looks over and sees the gunman. The first thing they would do is yell out we see him or get him.. to the policeman. Even worse, they could have caught him on film. Boom, there goes the plot. Same with the Records building sniper... they wouldn't want to get the shooting conspiracy so vast that everyone in the entire Black Ops department of the government was shooting. They would want to keep in minimal, but also necessary to get the job done.
Of course, that is just my theory.
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Bruce Patrick Brychek
- Posts: 1306
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Re: Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
Dear Mr. Wim Dankbaar, and Fellow JFK Forum Members:03.19.2006 - John Bruno Posted this Headline: Count The Bullets: Blow-Away All Agruments.While I do not agree with John's bullet count, I find his theory advanced compelling, and of probative value. And it can be used if studied closely:1. To more accurately analyze Zapruder, Nix, and Moorman videos and pictures.2. To more accurately analyze theories about how many shooters and/or teams of shooters.A compelling theory for arguments both Pro and Con of the above referenced points of interest and debate for those who are interested in those Subject Matters.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.
Re: Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
How Many Men On The 6th Floor And How Many Shots Were Fired:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97pPNG03 ... elatedSome Of The Witnesses To The JFK Coup:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7W9AiOn3U
Re: Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
kenmurray wrote:How Many Men On The 6th Floor And How Many Shots Were Fired:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97pPNG03 ... elatedSome Of The Witnesses To The JFK Coup:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt7W9AiOn3UOutstanding job once again Link Murraydale.
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ChristophMessner
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Re: Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
It's possible that some shot from the leading car as well, isn't it?
Re: Count the bullets: blow away all arguments!
ChristophMessner wrote:It's possible that some shot from the leading car as well, isn't it?Chris, it's possible but I don't think so.