Judth Baker questions
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Simon West
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
I'm saying it's a hypothesis that I would like to eliminate.
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How can I eliminate the hypothesis that you are mentally ill? Give me your defense so I can use the same for Judyth.
Wim
PS: You can download them this way:
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/alewis.wmv
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/haslam1.wmv
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/haslam2.wmv
**************************
How can I eliminate the hypothesis that you are mentally ill? Give me your defense so I can use the same for Judyth.
Wim
PS: You can download them this way:
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/alewis.wmv
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/haslam1.wmv
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/film/haslam2.wmv
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Simon West
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
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Simon West
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Wim,
I hope you believe me that no offence was intended and I apologise if any was caused.
Anyway, I have watched the videos of Anna Lewis and Ed Haslam today in their entirety.
For what it's worth I'll give you my impressions of the Lewis / Haslam interviews together with the newspaper cuttings you posted. I think that they are very enlightening testimonies and thank you very much for making them available.
Lewis does indeed confirm that Lee and Judyth had a relationship. What is telling is the nature of that relationship as she describes it. She says things like "Judy clung to his arm" and that "When Lee said jump she said how high?" suggesting that she was totally infatuated with him. That's important because it automatically determines the kind of version of events you're going to get from such a person. For example, if you could ask Eva Braun what kind of a guy Adolf Hitler was what kind of response would you expect to hear?
From the evidence it appears that despite a very promising start, Judyth lost her research job possibly because of personality problems. Maybe she had a breakdown, maybe she couldn't cope with the monotony that is the reality of lab work, maybe she had problems dealing with her co-workers or superiors.
She ended up working at the Reily Coffee Company where she met Oswald.
How Oswald got to be there is not clear but his intention to manipulate Judyth and get her to work with David Ferrie and his ridiculous plan to invent a 'cancer causing monkey virus' to assassinate Fidel Castro is.
It seems, from the testimony of Anna Lewis that her husband, Oswald, Ferrie, Guy Banister and various other right-wing extremists loved nothing more than to get together and hatch plots to assassinate Castro and persecute communists. Lewis says that she thought they were joking.
However, Ferrie got the idea into his head that they could assassinate Castro using a cancer causing virus. Either he heard from Oswald that one of his co-workers at Reily used to be a cancer researcher or Ferrie thought of it first but being totally clueless himself and needing a researcher got Oswald the Reily job in order to aquire Judyth's talents. Whilst the former is likely to be the case one way or another, Oswald, with his worldly charm managed to seduce Judyth and get her working at Ferrie's 'Secret Lab' i.e. his apartment.
Obviously this was doomed to failure. There is no cancer producing virus that could be used as an assassination weapon. You could infect someone with such a virus and there is a possibility that they might eventually get cancer which may or may not be fatal. Then again it might have no effect at all like the SV40 virus that accidentally contaminated 10 million doses of polio vaccine in the early 60s. SV40 causes tumours in mice but has caused no measurable increase in cancer rates among those humans infected. Eventually the idea was dropped as a lost cause and that's the end of Judyth's role in the story.
Now comes the bit you really, really, really won't like.
Anna Lewis says in no uncertain terms, Lee Harvey Oswald was up there in the book depository with a rifle when JFK was shot. However, she says that he only fired a 'warning shot'.
A warning shot? Lewis admits she heard Oswald speaking of shooting Castro. Oswald's real friends were all right wing nutcases who must have all hated Kennedy, absolutely hated him. Regardless of what Anna Lewis or Judyth Baker think they knew about Oswald's feelings towards Kennedy it is fair to assume that he held the same view as they did.
Therefore, Oswald didn't fire a warning shot. Fed up with all the endless talk and inaction from his right wing extremist buddies and the complete waste of time on the cancer project with Ferrie. He decided to finally take some action and shot the president.
Fearful that Oswald was going to spill the beans whist in custody about all the shady dealings with his friends and contacts one or more of them decided to silence Oswald and got Jack Ruby to do the dirty work.
I told you you wouldn't like it
I would like to state that I came to this discussion with an open mind, if anything strongly suspecting and perhaps hoping to find undeniable evidence of a government conspiracy. I want you to know that I consider the above a plausible hypothesis that fits the available evidence and that I am inclined to believe.
I am not posting this in an attempt to discredit you or anything like that. Far from it. I'm posting this in all sincerity and in the spirit of debate. You could be right and I'm completely wrong. I would love nothing more than to have this version of events picked apart and proved impossible. So I hope you don't delete my post or ban me but of course it's your forum, your project and your call.
Kind Regards,
Simon.
I hope you believe me that no offence was intended and I apologise if any was caused.
Anyway, I have watched the videos of Anna Lewis and Ed Haslam today in their entirety.
For what it's worth I'll give you my impressions of the Lewis / Haslam interviews together with the newspaper cuttings you posted. I think that they are very enlightening testimonies and thank you very much for making them available.
Lewis does indeed confirm that Lee and Judyth had a relationship. What is telling is the nature of that relationship as she describes it. She says things like "Judy clung to his arm" and that "When Lee said jump she said how high?" suggesting that she was totally infatuated with him. That's important because it automatically determines the kind of version of events you're going to get from such a person. For example, if you could ask Eva Braun what kind of a guy Adolf Hitler was what kind of response would you expect to hear?
From the evidence it appears that despite a very promising start, Judyth lost her research job possibly because of personality problems. Maybe she had a breakdown, maybe she couldn't cope with the monotony that is the reality of lab work, maybe she had problems dealing with her co-workers or superiors.
She ended up working at the Reily Coffee Company where she met Oswald.
How Oswald got to be there is not clear but his intention to manipulate Judyth and get her to work with David Ferrie and his ridiculous plan to invent a 'cancer causing monkey virus' to assassinate Fidel Castro is.
It seems, from the testimony of Anna Lewis that her husband, Oswald, Ferrie, Guy Banister and various other right-wing extremists loved nothing more than to get together and hatch plots to assassinate Castro and persecute communists. Lewis says that she thought they were joking.
However, Ferrie got the idea into his head that they could assassinate Castro using a cancer causing virus. Either he heard from Oswald that one of his co-workers at Reily used to be a cancer researcher or Ferrie thought of it first but being totally clueless himself and needing a researcher got Oswald the Reily job in order to aquire Judyth's talents. Whilst the former is likely to be the case one way or another, Oswald, with his worldly charm managed to seduce Judyth and get her working at Ferrie's 'Secret Lab' i.e. his apartment.
Obviously this was doomed to failure. There is no cancer producing virus that could be used as an assassination weapon. You could infect someone with such a virus and there is a possibility that they might eventually get cancer which may or may not be fatal. Then again it might have no effect at all like the SV40 virus that accidentally contaminated 10 million doses of polio vaccine in the early 60s. SV40 causes tumours in mice but has caused no measurable increase in cancer rates among those humans infected. Eventually the idea was dropped as a lost cause and that's the end of Judyth's role in the story.
Now comes the bit you really, really, really won't like.
Anna Lewis says in no uncertain terms, Lee Harvey Oswald was up there in the book depository with a rifle when JFK was shot. However, she says that he only fired a 'warning shot'.
A warning shot? Lewis admits she heard Oswald speaking of shooting Castro. Oswald's real friends were all right wing nutcases who must have all hated Kennedy, absolutely hated him. Regardless of what Anna Lewis or Judyth Baker think they knew about Oswald's feelings towards Kennedy it is fair to assume that he held the same view as they did.
Therefore, Oswald didn't fire a warning shot. Fed up with all the endless talk and inaction from his right wing extremist buddies and the complete waste of time on the cancer project with Ferrie. He decided to finally take some action and shot the president.
Fearful that Oswald was going to spill the beans whist in custody about all the shady dealings with his friends and contacts one or more of them decided to silence Oswald and got Jack Ruby to do the dirty work.
I told you you wouldn't like it
I would like to state that I came to this discussion with an open mind, if anything strongly suspecting and perhaps hoping to find undeniable evidence of a government conspiracy. I want you to know that I consider the above a plausible hypothesis that fits the available evidence and that I am inclined to believe.
I am not posting this in an attempt to discredit you or anything like that. Far from it. I'm posting this in all sincerity and in the spirit of debate. You could be right and I'm completely wrong. I would love nothing more than to have this version of events picked apart and proved impossible. So I hope you don't delete my post or ban me but of course it's your forum, your project and your call.
Kind Regards,
Simon.
It wasn't Ferrie who came with the plan to create a cancer causing virus to assassinate Fidel Castro. It was Ochsner. Neither was it Oswald who got Judyth to work with Ferrie. That was also Ochsner. Other persons involevded in the project were Clay Shaw and Mary Sherman.
Contrary to what you may believe, they did not abandon it. Ruby was not the hallucinating fool they wanted him to be. He knew all about the method, as will become clear from Judyth's DVD.
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/rubycancer.jpg
You may als want to have a look at page 416 of Double Cross (1992)
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/GIANCANAcancer.jpg
I know you haven't seen Judyth's DVD but it's also clear to me that you didn't see Ed Haslam's interview yet.
It's not that I dislike your thesis, which I do reject indeed. You know what I dislike about these discussions? That I have to educate people who render a negative opinion before they have seen all the stuff. Not prohibited by knowledge I call that.
Also can you tell me at which point (at which minute) Anna talks about the warning shot?
Wim
Contrary to what you may believe, they did not abandon it. Ruby was not the hallucinating fool they wanted him to be. He knew all about the method, as will become clear from Judyth's DVD.
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/rubycancer.jpg
You may als want to have a look at page 416 of Double Cross (1992)
http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/GIANCANAcancer.jpg
I know you haven't seen Judyth's DVD but it's also clear to me that you didn't see Ed Haslam's interview yet.
It's not that I dislike your thesis, which I do reject indeed. You know what I dislike about these discussions? That I have to educate people who render a negative opinion before they have seen all the stuff. Not prohibited by knowledge I call that.
Also can you tell me at which point (at which minute) Anna talks about the warning shot?
Wim
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Jim Thompson
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
A Penny Hypothesis
Simon West wrote: I want you to know that I consider the above a plausible hypothesis that fits the available evidence and that I am inclined to believe. Simon.
It seems that Simon is in disguise. He's in fact Simple Simon in mufti!
Simple Simon met a pieman
Going to the fair;
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Let me taste your ware."
Says the pieman to Simple Simon,
"Show me first your penny."
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Indeed I have not any."
Now comes the bit Simon really, really, really won't like.
Compare Simon's hypothesis with my more plausible, more tightly reasoned hypothesis:
A freshly gnawed chicken bone was found in the sniper's nest immediately after the assassination. Therefore, the lone nut was COL. SANDERS. (Most people don't know that LHO was a vegetarian. Of course Simon will argue that LHO was using the bone as a red herring [bone].)
Simon if you need a penny, PM me.
Jim
It seems that Simon is in disguise. He's in fact Simple Simon in mufti!
Simple Simon met a pieman
Going to the fair;
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Let me taste your ware."
Says the pieman to Simple Simon,
"Show me first your penny."
Says Simple Simon to the pieman,
"Indeed I have not any."
Now comes the bit Simon really, really, really won't like.
Compare Simon's hypothesis with my more plausible, more tightly reasoned hypothesis:
A freshly gnawed chicken bone was found in the sniper's nest immediately after the assassination. Therefore, the lone nut was COL. SANDERS. (Most people don't know that LHO was a vegetarian. Of course Simon will argue that LHO was using the bone as a red herring [bone].)
Simon if you need a penny, PM me.
Jim
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Simon West
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
dankbaar wrote:Also can you tell me at which point (at which minute) Anna talks about the warning shot?28 minutes 25 secondsInterviewer: Did you ever hear anyone in the mafia talk about Lee firing a warning shot?Lewis: David mentioned that that's what Lee Harvey Oswald had done.dankbaar wrote:It's not that I dislike your thesis, which I do reject indeed. You know what I dislike about these discussions? That I have to educate people who render a negative opinion before they have seen all the stuff. Not prohibited by knowledge I call that.That's why I keep saying more of this stuff should be in the public domain. dankbaar wrote: It wasn't Ferrie who came with the plan to create a cancer causing virus to assassinate Fidel Castro. It was Ochsner. Neither was it Oswald who got Judyth to work with Ferrie. That was also Ochsner.
Whilst it is obvious that Oschner was in some way involved, he wasn't the close bosom buddies with Oswald the way Ferrie was. Neither was he as clearly insane as Ferrie was. The assassination of Castro with a cancer causing virus could only have come from Ferrie in my opinion, Oschner may have lent his support to it due to his equally revolting extremist views. My contention is that this is a bottom up conspiracy. i.e. rather than government and CIA giving these orders it's whackos like Ferrie and his friends that came up with the ideas and the CIA knew about them but just left them to it, probably not even thinking it would come to anything. They hadn't counted on Oswald, who on the surface was a bit of a loser but in fact was getting pretty frustrated by the lack of action.
Thanks for engaging in the debate. I appreciate it.
Simon.
Whilst it is obvious that Oschner was in some way involved, he wasn't the close bosom buddies with Oswald the way Ferrie was. Neither was he as clearly insane as Ferrie was. The assassination of Castro with a cancer causing virus could only have come from Ferrie in my opinion, Oschner may have lent his support to it due to his equally revolting extremist views. My contention is that this is a bottom up conspiracy. i.e. rather than government and CIA giving these orders it's whackos like Ferrie and his friends that came up with the ideas and the CIA knew about them but just left them to it, probably not even thinking it would come to anything. They hadn't counted on Oswald, who on the surface was a bit of a loser but in fact was getting pretty frustrated by the lack of action.
Thanks for engaging in the debate. I appreciate it.
Simon.
The assassination of Castro with a cancer causing virus could only have come from Ferrie in my opinion, Oschner may have lent his support to it due to his equally revolting extremist views.
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Sorry, but that's preposterous. You think Ferrie made available the 5 undergorund labs in New Orleans? You think Ferrie enlisted Clay Shaw and Mary Sherman? You think Ferrie gave Ochner a new Caddillac each year? You think Ferrie had the contacts to have the virus transported by Lee to Mexico City to have it taken to Cuba from there? You think Ferrie had the contacts in Castro's medical team? You think Ferrie organized the experiments on live "volunteers" in the Eastern Louisiana State hospital? You think Ferrie pulled the strings to have Lee interviewed by the WDSU radiostation owned by Ochsner's INCA? You think Ferrie produced this record on Oswald?
http://www.conelrad.com/media/atomicmus ... platter=19
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Sorry, but that's preposterous. You think Ferrie made available the 5 undergorund labs in New Orleans? You think Ferrie enlisted Clay Shaw and Mary Sherman? You think Ferrie gave Ochner a new Caddillac each year? You think Ferrie had the contacts to have the virus transported by Lee to Mexico City to have it taken to Cuba from there? You think Ferrie had the contacts in Castro's medical team? You think Ferrie organized the experiments on live "volunteers" in the Eastern Louisiana State hospital? You think Ferrie pulled the strings to have Lee interviewed by the WDSU radiostation owned by Ochsner's INCA? You think Ferrie produced this record on Oswald?
http://www.conelrad.com/media/atomicmus ... platter=19
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Edward Haslam
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
The polygraph question is an interesting one and a good place to start a discussion about Judyth.
If I may re-position the question a bit, it will help me get to my point. Given that there is solid evidence (her 1963 W2 form from the Reily Coffee Company) that Judyth Vary Baker worked with Lee Harvey Oswald (even starting on the same day as Oswald) in the summer of 1963. The RCC timecards show that she clocked in within minutes of him day-after-day. Why then was she not picked up by the FBI, the New Orleans Police Department, or the Warren Commission to be polygraphed, or at least, questioned?
Any gumshoe dectective investigating a murder suspect would have started with friends and associates, particularly at their place of employment. Given that neither Lee nor Judyth owned a car, that they both clocked in within minutes of each other, and both lived along the Magazine Street bus route, it would have been fairly easy to figure out they took the same bus to work every morning. Such a common sense observation (if asked in 1963) would have easily led to the bus driver(s) that drove the Magazine bus at those times each morning. Having lived in New Orleans and used public transportation much of my life, I can assure you that the bus drivers recognize their regular customers. Oswald would get on the bus each morning at the corner of the 4900 block of Magazine. Several minutes later, an attractive young female would board the bus at Marengo Street and then sit down next to Oswald. Both would get off together by the Reily Coffee Company. Would this have gone un-noticed by the bus driver? (I note that the driver of the bus that Oswald boarded in Dallas on November 22, 1963 was questioned!)
What happened instead of a common sense gumshoe investigation was that FBI investigators went to Monihan, an ex-FBI agent who worked for Reily, one of the most notorious anti-Communists business people in the city. Monihan hired Oswald and was Baker’s immediate supervisor. Supposedly the FBI asked Monihan about Oswald’s character. Are we to believe that Monihan did not know that Baker and Oswald arrived together at the entrance to the coffee company on a daily basis for nearly three months? Was the point of asking Monihan about Oswald instead of doing a real investigation to make sure that the answers would pass FBI muster? Is this why Monihan never mentioned his secretary Judyth Baker in his response about Oswald?
I will add that Baker’s friend, Anna Lewis (see interview on www.JFKmurderSolved.com) acknowledges that she saw Judyth and Lee together on a regular basis and that she and her husband (David Lewis - an employee of ex-FBI agent-in-charge Guy Banister) socialized with Judyth and Lee on a number of occassions. Further, Anna Lewis admits that she lied to Jim Garrison and his investigators concerning her knowledge of Oswald. Had Anna Lewis told Garrison the truth, Garrison might very well have picked up Judyth Baker for questioning! And Garrison, who was infamous for giving polygraphs to witnesses, might very well have asked her to take a polygraph test. Why did this not happen? Anna Lewis knew about Oswald’s connection to Carlos Marcello, to Banister, to Baker and to the anti-Castro activities in New Orleans. She was afraid to speak out.
Ed Haslam
author of MARY, FERRIE & THE MONKEY VIRUS
webmaster of www.TheMonkeyVirus.com
If I may re-position the question a bit, it will help me get to my point. Given that there is solid evidence (her 1963 W2 form from the Reily Coffee Company) that Judyth Vary Baker worked with Lee Harvey Oswald (even starting on the same day as Oswald) in the summer of 1963. The RCC timecards show that she clocked in within minutes of him day-after-day. Why then was she not picked up by the FBI, the New Orleans Police Department, or the Warren Commission to be polygraphed, or at least, questioned?
Any gumshoe dectective investigating a murder suspect would have started with friends and associates, particularly at their place of employment. Given that neither Lee nor Judyth owned a car, that they both clocked in within minutes of each other, and both lived along the Magazine Street bus route, it would have been fairly easy to figure out they took the same bus to work every morning. Such a common sense observation (if asked in 1963) would have easily led to the bus driver(s) that drove the Magazine bus at those times each morning. Having lived in New Orleans and used public transportation much of my life, I can assure you that the bus drivers recognize their regular customers. Oswald would get on the bus each morning at the corner of the 4900 block of Magazine. Several minutes later, an attractive young female would board the bus at Marengo Street and then sit down next to Oswald. Both would get off together by the Reily Coffee Company. Would this have gone un-noticed by the bus driver? (I note that the driver of the bus that Oswald boarded in Dallas on November 22, 1963 was questioned!)
What happened instead of a common sense gumshoe investigation was that FBI investigators went to Monihan, an ex-FBI agent who worked for Reily, one of the most notorious anti-Communists business people in the city. Monihan hired Oswald and was Baker’s immediate supervisor. Supposedly the FBI asked Monihan about Oswald’s character. Are we to believe that Monihan did not know that Baker and Oswald arrived together at the entrance to the coffee company on a daily basis for nearly three months? Was the point of asking Monihan about Oswald instead of doing a real investigation to make sure that the answers would pass FBI muster? Is this why Monihan never mentioned his secretary Judyth Baker in his response about Oswald?
I will add that Baker’s friend, Anna Lewis (see interview on www.JFKmurderSolved.com) acknowledges that she saw Judyth and Lee together on a regular basis and that she and her husband (David Lewis - an employee of ex-FBI agent-in-charge Guy Banister) socialized with Judyth and Lee on a number of occassions. Further, Anna Lewis admits that she lied to Jim Garrison and his investigators concerning her knowledge of Oswald. Had Anna Lewis told Garrison the truth, Garrison might very well have picked up Judyth Baker for questioning! And Garrison, who was infamous for giving polygraphs to witnesses, might very well have asked her to take a polygraph test. Why did this not happen? Anna Lewis knew about Oswald’s connection to Carlos Marcello, to Banister, to Baker and to the anti-Castro activities in New Orleans. She was afraid to speak out.
Ed Haslam
author of MARY, FERRIE & THE MONKEY VIRUS
webmaster of www.TheMonkeyVirus.com
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Simon West
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
dankbaar wrote:Sorry, but that's preposterous. You think Ferrie made available the 5 undergorund labs in New Orleans? You think Ferrie enlisted Clay Shaw and Mary Sherman? You think Ferrie gave Ochner a new Caddillac each year? You think Ferrie had the contacts to have the virus transported by Lee to Mexico City to have it taken to Cuba from there? You think Ferrie had the contacts in Castro's medical team? You think Ferrie organized the experiments on live "volunteers" in the Eastern Louisiana State hospital? You think Ferrie pulled the strings to have Lee interviewed by the WDSU radiostation owned by Ochsner's INCA? You think Ferrie produced this record on Oswald? http://www.conelrad.com/media/atomicmus ... platter=19
The way I see it, the work was being done in Ferrie's apartment which indicates he was the first to come up with the idea. If it were not so, why would Ferrie have a lab set up there? What would be the point if there were as you say 5 other 'underground labs', presumably much better equipped, available at the start?
Ochsner was certainly involved but it's not clear to me whether he was assigned to keep an eye on them by the CIA or was actively helping because of his own political views or both.
Certainly the radio interview and subsequent LP record are a deception. I.e. Oswald in the radio interview is pro-Castro but we know from Anna Lewis and many others that Oswald was anti-Castro. Obviously a CIA anti-communist propaganda exercise arranged by Ochsner and part of a scheme to promote Oswald as pro-Castro in order to infiltrate Fair Play For Cuba and identify Castro sympathisers.
I still believe that the 'cancer causing virus' plot was not a viable method of assassination. If there really were someone on Castro's medical team ready to administer such a virus then why not something more effective like arsenic, saxotoxin, botulin, malaria or the rabies virus? If there were someone on Castro's medical team willing to kill Castro, why would they need to import such a virus from the United States at all?
If Lee did indeed go to Mexico to deliver his virus, the fact that there was no one there to recieve it suggests that no one was taking it seriously. They were just being played and kept occupied by the CIA.
I would like to know exactly what this virus was, how was it made. Not in layman's terms but the exact scientific method, contents and characterstics of the virus and from what was it derived.
The way I see it, the work was being done in Ferrie's apartment which indicates he was the first to come up with the idea. If it were not so, why would Ferrie have a lab set up there? What would be the point if there were as you say 5 other 'underground labs', presumably much better equipped, available at the start?
Ochsner was certainly involved but it's not clear to me whether he was assigned to keep an eye on them by the CIA or was actively helping because of his own political views or both.
Certainly the radio interview and subsequent LP record are a deception. I.e. Oswald in the radio interview is pro-Castro but we know from Anna Lewis and many others that Oswald was anti-Castro. Obviously a CIA anti-communist propaganda exercise arranged by Ochsner and part of a scheme to promote Oswald as pro-Castro in order to infiltrate Fair Play For Cuba and identify Castro sympathisers.
I still believe that the 'cancer causing virus' plot was not a viable method of assassination. If there really were someone on Castro's medical team ready to administer such a virus then why not something more effective like arsenic, saxotoxin, botulin, malaria or the rabies virus? If there were someone on Castro's medical team willing to kill Castro, why would they need to import such a virus from the United States at all?
If Lee did indeed go to Mexico to deliver his virus, the fact that there was no one there to recieve it suggests that no one was taking it seriously. They were just being played and kept occupied by the CIA.
I would like to know exactly what this virus was, how was it made. Not in layman's terms but the exact scientific method, contents and characterstics of the virus and from what was it derived.