PRESIDENT OBAMA'S BAY OF PIGS:

[ChristophMessner]

Dealey Joe wrote:Also on another note, I am still trying tofigure out how most all of you were hoodwinked by Obama?that is unbelievable to me. All of us? Maybe it was the leap of faith you tend to give when the hope is bigger than reason. Dealey Joe wrote: He has never shown that he is a citizen of the U.S. of A. and i doubt that he is He might not be. But is it really necessary, if the US mainly serves for an INTER-national world now? Dealey Joe wrote: Who had a campaign by a subversive group out steaaling and buying votes?If you are stupid enough to think multiple votes were not cast, I have some ocean front property for sale here in Oklahoma. Maybe on international scale you really have the problem, that the majority is not educated enough to vote while the leaders are not educated enough to organize the world with many equal leaders. Dealey Joe wrote: Who had Jillions of dollars illegally donated from foreighners under the table evidentally done using the internet to bypass election laws. It's time to join the no-voting-machines-campaign. Dealey Joe wrote: Some of you have said you love socialism.My parents and family was born into a country that at one time embraced Freedom,A country founded as a Rebublic who wanted out from under the control of a King.I you actually love socialism then you are on the road, when the health plan is in place you will be locked into it. Socialism is not when the state cares for those, who can't afford adequate medicine, but when there is no right for private equity. In the USA you still have the right to possess land, don't you? But with those Patriot Acts I admit, the USA as grown closer to a Police State. My guess is, that it's the plan of the Vatican, that the USA has to go through the almost same experience as Germany underwent from 1933-1945 to learn, that it is not ok to dominate the world for it's own advantage. We are moving into a big crash, followed by International-socialism. And it's about teaching the religions real christianity. Dealey Joe wrote: As for me "Give me Liberty or give me Death" The point is, that there is no liberty to decide whether you want to follow the laws of nature or not, isn't it?

[Dealey Joe]

Chris I appreciate your input but I think you are missing the point somewhat.of course you may not have the same perspective being from Germany.Maybe the things I duscuss are out of place on an internationall forum.However the JFK situation is basically an American happening in aninternational setting.(All of us? Maybe it was the leap of faith you tend to give when the hope is bigger than reason. )There is a difference between Hope and Wishful Thinking.(He might not be. But is it really necessary, if the US mainly serves for an INTER-national world now?)Oh My! well this is a Constitutional Republic and we must follow the contract we have with the government.I will give you that over the years things have changed.(Maybe on international scale you really have the problem, that the majority is not educated enough to vote while the leaders are not educated enough to organize the world with many equal leaders. )I m not quite sure what you are saying here?What does education have to do with deciding on who you prefere run the country.That is what is happening now. we are all kept in the dark so that we can educate ourselves to find out we are in Slavery.Running the world should not be our concern.( It's time to join the no-voting-machines-campaign. )I agree. we should go back to the rule book and appoint the President and Vice President as the Constitution mandates.Elections are only used because they can be stoles and controled.(Socialism is not when the state cares for those, who can't afford adequate medicine, but when there is no right for private equity.)This is an area of discussion that could cover volums, Socialism is when the people want the State to take care of all their needs and wants providing nothing for themselves.( In the USA you still have the right to possess land, don't you? )Yes you can have your name on a peice of land, but if the State wants it they jusy take it.(But with those Patriot Acts I admit, the USA as grown closer to a Police State.)Yes this is a police state from the lowest levels. (My guess is, that it's the plan of the Vatican,)The Vatican has far more international control than most are aware of.most fear China as a sleeping giant but should be lookimg at the vatican asa giant of the Hidden Elite/World Power. in the end they will step forward to control the world. (that the USA has to go through the almost same experience as Germany underwent from 1933-1945 to learn, that it is not ok to dominate the world for it's own advantage. We are moving into a big crash, followed by International-socialism.)When you dont learn from history, you are bound to repeat it, even worse I think. (And it's about teaching the religions real christianity.)You cant teach the religious, they already have all the answers.(The point is, that there is no liberty to decide whether you want to follow the laws of nature or not, isn't it?)Yes, you can decide not to follow the laws of nature but the results can be disasterous.if you don't think so just step off the side of a 20 story building.

[Bob]

Yes...all of us that thought that Obama might make a difference were wrong. Big time. We can see that again as the healthcare bill is floundering, with no REAL intervention by Obama. But folks that think Sarah Palin would have made a difference need to look at her track record (or lack there of) and her cozy relationships with people that hung around with convicted Senator Ted Stevens. For God sakes, Palin couldn't even finish her FIRST term. I see two politicians that WOULD make a difference, one from the right and one from the left. That would be Ron Paul from the right and Dennis Kucinich from the left. Both ran for President, but the power brokers from each of their parties never gave them a chance to succeed. Jesse Ventura is another that I would support if he decided to run for President. By the way, I hope to hear from Wayne Madsen soon to find out more information about Obama's ties to the CIA.

[ChristophMessner]

Dealey Joe wrote:Chris I appreciate your input but I think you are missing the point somewhat. of course you may not have the same perspective being from Germany. Maybe the things I duscuss are out of place on an internationall forum. However the JFK situation is basically an American happening in an international setting. Joe, I appreciate your input, too. Maybe I missed some points. Let me try to aim and hit the second time. The things you discuss are not out of place. The JFK-solving-process-conclusions should be mainly an inner-American thing, but the research and solving process is open and relevant for the whole world in my eyes. Dealey Joe wrote: (All of us? Maybe it was the leap of faith you tend to give when the hope is bigger than reason. )There is a difference between Hope and Wishful Thinking. True. Your critics on too much wishful thinking was justified. Dealey Joe wrote: (He might not be. But is it really necessary, if the US mainly serves for an INTER-national world now?)Oh My! well this is a Constitutional Republic and we must follow the contract we have with the government.I will give you that over the years things have changed. Yes, the Constitution of a nation would not be worth much, if it would not be obeyed by the nation. Staying with the rules you set. But can you detect any positive part in the inthronisation of Obama as identification figure to the black part of the world and would this positiveness be big enough to legitimate an overseeing of Obama's birth certificate? Dealey Joe wrote: (Maybe on international scale you really have the problem, that the majority is not educated enough to vote while the leaders are not educated enough to organize the world with many equal leaders. )I m not quite sure what you are saying here? What does education have to do with deciding on who you prefere run the country.That is what is happening now. we are all kept in the dark so that we can educate ourselves to find out we are in Slavery.Running the world should not be our concern. I had education in mind, which would help make the people capable to think into the thinking of the rulers. Analphabets can't discern, whether the campaigning politician is well-read or pseudo-educated. Citizens who never learn how to engage into social projects can't discern whether the politicians promises on welfare are mere propaganda or serious. Intellectuals who had never learned how to fight a battle can't discern, what the true effects of the warmongering of a "leader" will be. And so on. It's true that the USA should not aim at running the world, cause it would be too much for this tiny minority (and why run if you can walk as well!), but it's capacities of it's highly developedness legitimates for some time-limited leaderships and initiatives while the underdeveloped countries develop to the level of self-ruling-capacity. Dealey Joe wrote:( It's time to join the no-voting-machines-campaign. )I agree. we should go back to the rule book and appoint the President and Vice President as the Constitution mandates.Elections are only used because they can be stoles and controled. So what do you do, what do I do, to get the voting machines forbidden via constitution? Dealey Joe wrote: (Socialism is not when the state cares for those, who can't afford adequate medicine, but when there is no right for private equity.) This is an area of discussion that could cover volums, Socialism is when the people want the State to take care of all their needs and wants providing nothing for themselves. Yes it's true, one could discuss endlessly here. Probably we should rather discuss, how you wish the future world to be ruled, how much national souvereignity would you want to see remaining? "united states" ... wouldn't it be the right of any state to have it's own currency, army, president, culture, constitution, ... ? Dealey Joe wrote: ( In the USA you still have the right to possess land, don't you? )Yes you can have your name on a peice of land, but if the State wants it they jusy take it. Then there is no liberty, no democracy and no republic anymore. Dealey Joe wrote: (But with those Patriot Acts I admit, the USA as grown closer to a Police State.)Yes this is a police state from the lowest levels. Puh! Let's hope, people's former democratic education will rebel against the further degreding of the US into Stalinism. Is there a chance to convince the police to not follow the orders of the officials but follow the orders of the people? Dealey Joe wrote: (My guess is, that it's the plan of the Vatican,)The Vatican has far more international control than most are aware of. most fear China as a sleeping giant but should be lookimg at the vatican as a giant of the Hidden Elite/World Power. in the end they will step forward to control the world. I guess so. But I have also hope, because I know that no belief system is capable of controlling everything. When I said education I also meant the education to the capacity of independant thinking you show. Dealey Joe wrote: (that the USA has to go through the almost same experience as Germany underwent from 1933-1945 to learn, that it is not ok to dominate the world for it's own advantage. We are moving into a big crash, followed by International-socialism.)When you dont learn from history, you are bound to repeat it, even worse I think. Seems so. I wonder, why the many good intellectuals and political writers in the US don't have a bigger impact. Dealey Joe wrote: (And it's about teaching the religions real christianity.) You cant teach the religious, they already have all the answers. Yes, you are right. But I guess it's about the existential seriousness the believers in their religions really take their belief serious. It's easy to pray to Jesus while the church is heated and secure, it's difficult to walk the way Jesus walked by yourself. Dealey Joe wrote: (The point is, that there is no liberty to decide whether you want to follow the laws of nature or not, isn't it?)Yes, you can decide not to follow the laws of nature but the results can be disasterous. if you don't think so just step off the side of a 20 story building. So you have liberty?

[Dealey Joe]

Chris you are very well informed and I can tell also well educatede.In order to have any understanding of my thoughts and feelings you would need to have understaning of the Constitution of the United States of America.Yes I am a Constitutionalist. I live in a state of hope(wishful thinking) that this nation could go back and restore the ORIGINAL constitution.Keep in mind that all the so called amendments are unconstitutionalWe are on the same page, just hearing different things.If you watch movies please get "The Majestic" with jim Carey, toward the end of the movie he gives a very passionate speech about the Constitution.If you can watch this you will get a feel where I come from.I would like to hear your take on what YOU hear.I know I am a dying breed. soon no one will even recognise we even have a Constitution.but as long as there are one of us still telling the story, someone will hear it.The attack on JFK was an attack on the Constitution, our way of government and way of life

[ChristophMessner]

Joe, yes, the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK were an attack on the US Constitution, cause representatives of the people misused their power against the interests and wishes of the people in those cases. I don't know much about the US Constitution, it's amendments and the difference to the original version; I just read the text online and the translation into German and that is not sufficient to grasp it's spirit and how the people identify and live with it. And I did not watch the movie "The Majestic" so far, I just read the wikipedia summary. But I read a lot in and about the German Constitution and the Charta of the United Nations and philosophy of law/justice and as far as I know most of the articles concerning the individual freedoms sound very well at first glance, but in practice the respect for the dignity of any human is limited to the members of the own nation only and the guaranteed independance of the central banks, judges and immune politicians from the control of the people most of the time destroys a life in dignity and freedom for many as well. So I believe any Constitution should be left open for amendments and it needs amendmends, but unfortunately the US got the wrong amendments in the case of the Patriot Acts. National sovereignity is important, but what would the freedom for US citizens only be worth, if it would be reached only by the non-freedom of all non US citizens? So any national Constitution should amend into an international humanity-respecting one, but it should not sacrifice any national idea of freedom rights for that. Chris

[Phil Dragoo]

Recall the firestorm which erupted when Hillary Clinton noted Robert Kennedy was assassinated in June.She did Webb for a law firm slot--then Suzi told Webb, "I'm afraid of Marsha"--Scott, last person in the White House to see the "depressed" Webb alive.While Suzi's daddy Seth Ward wanted a piece of the Nicaragua war effort: "Is this horsepower or horse----?"All the players know far more than they're saying.My great to the fifth fought King George, and my line gave at North Anna River May 25, 1964, so when the four sixties assassinations are examined, they clearly had a prequel at Ford Theater.Nice: Ford Theater. Where Lincoln's NECK wound etcetera.I will posit that the Constitution remains the subject of hot debate, its nature and role not having cooled into obscurity in two hundred twenty years.I wonder how much thought has been given to the creation and grooming of the Forty-Fourth by KGB Active Measures, and those who no doubt CORRECTED any oversight in the passport record.It is dizzying to see the Left throw Obama under its bus in an echo of the damnation of the Right.I posit he is the Left's creation and its steadfast proponent--see how he smooths the difficulties with Russia and China.I do not in any way see him as a tool of CIA or military institutionalism or defense interests.He is true to his promise to scrap risky unproven missile defense systems, and eliminate expensive technologies.This is why we have endured two hundred thirty years: we will elect those who are chosen to represent the times. O tempores.My college fraternity brother's father coauthored Fail-Safe. Remember that era--under the desks, kiddies.The assassinations are evil possession, even as Germany suffered that nasty little man, and Russia continues to embrace Uncle Joe in Vlad the Poisoner.Johnson and Hoover and Dulles were damn sure privy to who struck John.Pound of flesh? Hell, I'm not on any diet.I'm not beating my chest over a piece of legislation--I'm demanding the nation from the street to the Oval Office reveal and mourn--all anew, all afresh.

[ChristophMessner]

Phil Dragoo wrote: ... All the players know far more than they're saying ... That's so true. And they ignore much more of the people's wishes than we ever imagine.

[Bob]

See what Len Hart thinks President Obama should do (he won't of course)...What Must Obama do about the Lie of the Century?December 18th, 2009 by Len Hart, The Existentialist CowboyObama should get off his butt and insist upon war crimes trials of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condo Rice. That Iraq had WMD was a bald faced lie to justify the seizure of Middle East oil fields! Ergo --every Iraqi death following is one count in a WAR CRIMES INDICTMENT on the scale of those charged to Adolph Hitler and high mucky mucks in the murderous Third Reich. TITLE 18 >(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.-- PART I > CHAPTER 118 > § 2441, War crimesI say let the trials begin with George W. Bush who believed himself above the law and that the US Constitution was just a 'goddamned piece of paper'!The government official who wrote the first draft of the "dodgy dossier" that helped propel Britain into war in Iraq today admits, "We were wrong."John Williams, a former Foreign Office aide, said last night that publication of his document would expose how members of Tony Blair's team were locked in a mindset that made military action inevitable.On Wednesday, ministers will hit a deadline for publishing the 2002 document, after years of resistance.The Williams draft was written in September 2002, only days after Mr Blair, then Prime Minister, announced that the Government would publish a dossier of intelligence showing that Saddam Hussein threatened the world with his weapons.The draft was not disclosed at the Hutton inquiry into the death in 2003 of the former Iraq arms inspector David Kelly. The scientist had suggested the dossier was exaggerated to justify the UK joining the 2003 invasion.--'Dodgy dossier' was 'wrong', its author says, The IndependantAccording to the Times of London, Ministers had been warned in July 2002 that it "had no choice but to find a way" of making the American-led invasion of Iraq legal. In other words, the government in Britain KNEW that what Bush was doing in and to Iraq was a prosecutable war crime but, instead of doing the right thing, Britain sought to 'make it legal'. The very phrase --'to make it legal' --speaks to guilt and pre-meditation of both the US government of George W. Bush and the British government of Tony Blair in whom so many hopes had been invested, later dashed by the corrupting influences of the worst and most criminal White House in US history.Damn Liars and War Criminals!If the nation had wanted another eight years of war, a total of some twenty years of quagmire, war crimes and other atrocities. it might have put two idiots in the White House --John McCain and the even stupider Sarah Palin.Rather, the nation wanted change and expressed that hope by electing an articulate man of substance. Committing the nation to an quaqmire well underway is NOT what the nation voted for. Another eight years of Bush's war crime is NOT the path the US should be on if it wishes to restore its blackened image throughout the world. Nope! No WMD under the podium!

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

12.19.2009Dear Mr. Bob Fox:Bob - Another excellent point. Of course I now believe that Obama will do nothing.My thoughts and analysis of Obama have taken a 180 degree turn since the primaries and the election.Thom Zajac I certainly invite your further analysis.Comments ?Respectfully,BB.