Fabian Escalante running the show for Castro on Dealey Plaza. Need I specify more?
Wim
THE proof
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Kyler Cobain
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escalante
Who is he? Is he a real person? If so, what is it about him that would disqualify him? Does anything in the message match known information? Perhaps more importantly, does anything not match known information? I googled the name but didn't see anything solid about who he was or if he really existed. I would like to find something solid one way or the other to verify or debunk the contents.
A poster at alt.assassination.jfk is also looking at it but nothing yet.
A poster at alt.assassination.jfk is also looking at it but nothing yet.
He is a retrired Cuban General, former head of Cuban State Security, who investigated the murder for Castro. He is the author of several good books. Type his name in Amazon.com
He is greatly respected by any serious researcher, including me.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKescalante.htm
Wim
He is greatly respected by any serious researcher, including me.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKescalante.htm
Wim
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Kyler Cobain
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- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
escalante
Well, one thing I've learned is that something like 99% of the research in this case seems to have been done by persons with an agenda or emotional investment in one conclusion or another. Of that remaining 1% I've spoken to a few and they're telling me that:
1.) Cuba and the United States were not on good terms at the time
2.) JFK had indeed made several attempts on Castro's life
3.) They seem unsure of Escalante's activities, motives and role regarding the JFK assassination.
4.) There is a hazy claim that Escalante had flown to Dallas on 22 November, 1963 and left the same day; which at least supports the view that he was present in Dallas. But I haven't verified this information yet.
5.) There is evidence, but not proof, that Oswald was in fact 'doubled' in Mexico City by a man trying to gain entry into Cuba.
6.) I was pointed to an NSA doc that shows that there was in fact an American trying to get out of Cuba right after the assassination who was 'abandoned' by the U.S. government. Supposedly, most of the conspiracists either are not aware of this document or haven't quoted it.
That's as far as I've gotten so far.
I'm still catching up, but reading your site I can see that there is clearly evidence that the Bush family was heavily involved in U.S. intelligence, including the operations aimed at overthrowing the Cuban government and/or the assassination of Castro. Honestly, I find it to be a fantastic claim that invdividuals within JFK's own government would try to assassinate him. But, you may be right.
I'm curious, but why is Escalante "greatly respected" by "serioius researchers"? Most of the historians I've read on this subject seem to see him in a more negative light. Without being facetious, what, specifically, makes him respectable? I had always assumed that Oswald had acted alone but I was also pointed to a study by D.B. Thomas which, as I read it, seems to show conclusively that two persons were firing that day. Your thoughts?
1.) Cuba and the United States were not on good terms at the time
2.) JFK had indeed made several attempts on Castro's life
3.) They seem unsure of Escalante's activities, motives and role regarding the JFK assassination.
4.) There is a hazy claim that Escalante had flown to Dallas on 22 November, 1963 and left the same day; which at least supports the view that he was present in Dallas. But I haven't verified this information yet.
5.) There is evidence, but not proof, that Oswald was in fact 'doubled' in Mexico City by a man trying to gain entry into Cuba.
6.) I was pointed to an NSA doc that shows that there was in fact an American trying to get out of Cuba right after the assassination who was 'abandoned' by the U.S. government. Supposedly, most of the conspiracists either are not aware of this document or haven't quoted it.
That's as far as I've gotten so far.
I'm still catching up, but reading your site I can see that there is clearly evidence that the Bush family was heavily involved in U.S. intelligence, including the operations aimed at overthrowing the Cuban government and/or the assassination of Castro. Honestly, I find it to be a fantastic claim that invdividuals within JFK's own government would try to assassinate him. But, you may be right.
I'm curious, but why is Escalante "greatly respected" by "serioius researchers"? Most of the historians I've read on this subject seem to see him in a more negative light. Without being facetious, what, specifically, makes him respectable? I had always assumed that Oswald had acted alone but I was also pointed to a study by D.B. Thomas which, as I read it, seems to show conclusively that two persons were firing that day. Your thoughts?
4.) There is a hazy claim that Escalante had flown to Dallas on 22 November, 1963 and left the same day; which at least supports the view that he was present in Dallas. But I haven't verified this information yet.
Let's see. The chief of Cuban Intelligence flies into Dallas the day JFK is killed and flies back the same day. And the CIA doesn't know about it, right?
Need I say more?
Wim
Let's see. The chief of Cuban Intelligence flies into Dallas the day JFK is killed and flies back the same day. And the CIA doesn't know about it, right?
Need I say more?
Wim
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Kyler Cobain
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cia's knowledge
"Need I say more? "
Well, yes. I'm not sure what you mean here? Do we know everything the CIA knew? We might, I'm just not sure of what you're saying. Is that right? I thought there were primary sources indicating U.S. gov knowledge of this flight? I thought it was Mexico City CIA station reporting on a flight arriving Mexico City from Havana and departing for Dallas, returning the same way with at least one passenger/crew named "Fabian Escalante"? I may be mistaken. I'm not suggesting that this happened, only that others have claimed it did and that Mexico City Station primary sources show that to be the case?
I'm still curious as to why you found Escalante to be respectable? There may be a good reason, I'm just wondering what that reasoning is?
I'm new at this and there are *lots* of opinions and theories circulating, so can you help me out here? It would help me assess the validity of this message. I'm working on gathering all the primary sources relevant to the message. We'll see if they exist.
Well, yes. I'm not sure what you mean here? Do we know everything the CIA knew? We might, I'm just not sure of what you're saying. Is that right? I thought there were primary sources indicating U.S. gov knowledge of this flight? I thought it was Mexico City CIA station reporting on a flight arriving Mexico City from Havana and departing for Dallas, returning the same way with at least one passenger/crew named "Fabian Escalante"? I may be mistaken. I'm not suggesting that this happened, only that others have claimed it did and that Mexico City Station primary sources show that to be the case?
I'm still curious as to why you found Escalante to be respectable? There may be a good reason, I'm just wondering what that reasoning is?
I'm new at this and there are *lots* of opinions and theories circulating, so can you help me out here? It would help me assess the validity of this message. I'm working on gathering all the primary sources relevant to the message. We'll see if they exist.
Read the link below:
Tony Cuesta returned to Miami and died in 1994. The following year, Wayne Smith, chief of the Centre for International Policy in Washington, arranged a meeting on the assassination of John F. Kennedy, in Nassau, Bahamas. Others in attendance were: Gaeton Fonzi, Dick Russell, Noel Twyman, Anthony Summers, Peter Dale Scott, Jeremy Gunn, John Judge, Andy Kolis, Peter Kornbluh, Mary and Ray LaFontaine, Jim Lesar, John Newman, Alan Rogers, Russ Swickard, Ed Sherry, and Gordon Winslow.
http://cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0027.html
Tony Cuesta returned to Miami and died in 1994. The following year, Wayne Smith, chief of the Centre for International Policy in Washington, arranged a meeting on the assassination of John F. Kennedy, in Nassau, Bahamas. Others in attendance were: Gaeton Fonzi, Dick Russell, Noel Twyman, Anthony Summers, Peter Dale Scott, Jeremy Gunn, John Judge, Andy Kolis, Peter Kornbluh, Mary and Ray LaFontaine, Jim Lesar, John Newman, Alan Rogers, Russ Swickard, Ed Sherry, and Gordon Winslow.
http://cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0027.html
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Kyler Cobain
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on escalante
As for the flight of Fabian Escalante, I found it in the ARRB files. It's ARRB's Final Report, pages 135-136. CIA witnesses at Mexico City Station claimed that they did in fact have knowledge of this flight. I think the reader just has to read it and form their own opinion. As far as I see it, it's not definitive proof.
I'll read that link and get back to you. Thanks.
I'll read that link and get back to you. Thanks.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Wim Dankbaar [mailto:dank@xs4all.nl]
Enviado el: viernes, 06 de enero de 2006 17:40
Para: AA-Fabian Escalante
Asunto: Usted ha matado a Kennedy! Usted era el MASTERMIND para Fidel !
He mirado este documental aleman y ahora estoy seguro de eso.
Sr. Fabian, Usted ofrece una entrevista con este idiota desinformador y tiene que pensar sobre una entrevista conmigo? Estoy ofendido
De: Wim Dankbaar [mailto:dank@xs4all.nl]
Enviado el: viernes, 06 de enero de 2006 17:40
Para: AA-Fabian Escalante
Asunto: Usted ha matado a Kennedy! Usted era el MASTERMIND para Fidel !
He mirado este documental aleman y ahora estoy seguro de eso.
Sr. Fabian, Usted ofrece una entrevista con este idiota desinformador y tiene que pensar sobre una entrevista conmigo? Estoy ofendido
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Kyler Cobain
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
on the link
"CUBAN RECORDS. There were no records produced by the Cubans to verify anything presented. When pressed on the availability of records, General Escalante said that there is no procedure set up within the Cuban Government to declassify any record. He speculated as to how Claudia Furiati obtained Cuban documents for publication in her book, ZR. "She probably wrote to the Cuban Government", he said. He has been permitted to look at any record he seeks, but is not permitted to make photocopies
But in the Portuguese version of her book, ZR, there is a notorized affidavit by General Escalante Font that the State Security documents given to Mrs. Furiati are true and correct copies of the originals. [see her documents from JFK MENU ]"
I think this is my biggest concern with "meetings" with Cuban officials, ex or present. The U.S. and Cuba are still not on good terms and it seems questionable to me to take anything said by them as fact. These are two nations that have been bickering and scheming against each other for decades. I think there's a problem there.
Here, Escalante is saying that there aren't any documents available to support or debunk anything and that there is no process for obtaining them. Yet, as the link shows, there is such a process. This is not to implicate the Cuban government, I'm only saying that there is an obvious conflict of interest here. Suppose for the sake of discussion that the Cuban gov't were culpable. Then, just like suspicions about the CIA, we have to question and independently verify everything we get out of Cuba. That is, by definition, what an objective inquiry is. But we have to do that whether we know there is culpability or not since there is overwhelming motive (putative self-defense from JFK's attempts to kill Castro). It doesn't make the Cuban gov't guilty, it just means we can't make assumptions about innocence.
Tell me if that makes sense or not. I'm no more inclined to automatically buy Cuban gov't claims as I am U.S. gov't claims. Both are suspect.
Thanks.
But in the Portuguese version of her book, ZR, there is a notorized affidavit by General Escalante Font that the State Security documents given to Mrs. Furiati are true and correct copies of the originals. [see her documents from JFK MENU ]"
I think this is my biggest concern with "meetings" with Cuban officials, ex or present. The U.S. and Cuba are still not on good terms and it seems questionable to me to take anything said by them as fact. These are two nations that have been bickering and scheming against each other for decades. I think there's a problem there.
Here, Escalante is saying that there aren't any documents available to support or debunk anything and that there is no process for obtaining them. Yet, as the link shows, there is such a process. This is not to implicate the Cuban government, I'm only saying that there is an obvious conflict of interest here. Suppose for the sake of discussion that the Cuban gov't were culpable. Then, just like suspicions about the CIA, we have to question and independently verify everything we get out of Cuba. That is, by definition, what an objective inquiry is. But we have to do that whether we know there is culpability or not since there is overwhelming motive (putative self-defense from JFK's attempts to kill Castro). It doesn't make the Cuban gov't guilty, it just means we can't make assumptions about innocence.
Tell me if that makes sense or not. I'm no more inclined to automatically buy Cuban gov't claims as I am U.S. gov't claims. Both are suspect.
Thanks.