James Files & General Lansdale Behind the Picket Fence?

[ChristophMessner]

Bob wrote: Lansdale probably checked out everyone to see if they were in position. That would include guys like Files, Harrelson, Holt, Bosch and others like the fake SS guys. One should have asked the witnesses, whether they saw the same type of man running around everywhere before. Bob wrote: Plus, in addition there were explosives in one of the rail cars. JFK was not going to get out of Dealey Plaza alive, no matter what the cost. My guess is, they would have blown up the 3 tramps. Bob wrote: From the Altgens photo there appears to be three men in the DalTex building as shooters, obviously Chuck Nicoletti and Johnny Roselli, but I am trying to figure out who might be the third man in that photo. Can you actually see some of the snipers there? The sitting man on the stairs looks suspicious to me. Bob wrote: I have heard some people say that is was indeed Poppy Bu$h as the third man there. It's hard to believe that a man of the Bush-family would search the direct contact to the mob-hitmen. Bob wrote: We know that Bu$h was in the area, as he was photographed right after the assassianation near the TSBD. Yes, I believe so, too, that it is in fact Bush who is standing there. Bob wrote: That leads me to this...Watergate. Richard Nixon ordered the Watergate break-in because he was worried that the DNC had photos and documents that could tie him and others (see Poppy Bu$h) to Dealey Plaza that day. Reality can be stranger than fiction sometimes! Bob wrote: My understanding is that one team was busted and arrested for the break-in (people like E.Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis who were BOTH at Dealey Plaza on 11/22/1963) Got these 2 busted? Bob wrote: ...while the other team got what they wanted and got away. Jimmy Files was part of the team that got away. Seems so, yes. Bob wrote: And shortly after the Watergate affair and just before the HSCA investigation, a LOT of the key players were silenced...guys like Sam Giancana, Nicoletti, Roselli and Morales. David Phillips, Allan Dulles, George Bush and their killing orders via typewriter, no via whisper into somebody's ears! Bob wrote: Bottom line, Watergate and the events that followed shortly thereafter were ALL about 11/22/1963 and protecting the conspirators. Deep politics from behind the scenes like from the bushes ...But, Bob, Pasquale, Sara, Frenchy, Wim, Tom, John, Jsnow, Paul, ... doesn't the phonecall Pamela had with Jimmy about Lansdale behind the picket fence sound to you like a little fabricated from Pamela?

[Bob]

I don't give a lot of credence to Pamela Ray at all, but Lansdale was there. Fletcher Prouty recognized him from a photograph as he passed by the three tramps. It makes sense that he went on a quick walk through Dealey Plaza to make sure that everyone knew their assignments and were in position if they were needed. There is no doubt that Lansdale and David Atlee Phillips were the masterminds of this assassination. Others like Poppy Bu$h played key roles as well. Also, Phillips was the controller for BOTH Oswald and Files at the CIA. That's why they were together the week before the assassination. When Oswald warned Hosty, I am sure he mentioned his get togethers with Files. Oswald thought that he had done his job and had warned the proper authorities...the FBI...about the assassination attempt that was forthcoming. But the warning went unheeded, as J. Edgar Hoover wanted JFK dead just as much as LBJ, Nixon and others did. The Kennedy brothers absolutely hated Hoover, and vice versa. Hoover's ass and LBJ's ass (would have been indicted) were BOTH going to gone soon enough had JFK lived. Hoover had some stuff on the Kennedy brothers, like JFK's affairs, but the Kennedy brothers had a LOT on Hoover as well...like his alternative lifestyle (not that there is anything wrong with that), and Hoover did not want that part of his life coming out to the American public. Bottom line, Oswald was the patsy for all of this, as Phillips used Lee's assignments in the CIA to make him look like a lefty pinko, and everything (framing Oswald) went VERY well until Jimmy's headshot. But Lansdale was willing to go much further than that...based on the explosives in the rail car. Still, even after the release of the Zapruder (even though he is a player in this as well) film, the OFFICIAL U.S. government view is that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin. That bullshit is still going strong with fictional books by Posner and Bugliosi, and the latest documentaries on Discovery recently.

[John Beckham]

in an enlargement of a Murray photo, 2 men are walking from behind the plaza, 2 detectives are headed towards them. it looks like an older man and to his right a younger man. i need to get some decent software for this!

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

John Beckham wrote:in an enlargement of a Murray photo, 2 men are walking from behind the plaza, 2 detectives are headed towards them. it looks like an older man and to his right a younger man. i need to get some decent software for this!How long after the shooting was this picture taken? I should probably already know this, right? LOL

[John Beckham]

around 12:40. Malcolm Summers seeing the car in a few more minutes. note the rambler coming down the street behind the bus, Roger Craig saw? same timeline...i will say this about the JFK Assassination Forum, they do some great work with pictures! i don't want to hurt that furum, there are some great things everyone should look at. just that i had a bad experience, doesn't mean you will... http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/so, perhaps people didn't leave the scene quickly, it was casual.

[Bob]

That forum does have excellent photos. And like all forum's, it can get a little heated in the discussion. As I said, I review other JFK forums from time to time. Some are pretty good, but some spew disinformation. But overall, I still think this site with it's wealth of information AND the forum are the best. I know I'm biased, and this is the only site I am a member of, but that's how I feel. I know some of you belong to others as well as this one, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I just don't have enough time to multi-task (post) with other JFK forums because of my other duties...namely writing. But I also like the information that John and others have brought into this forum from other JFK sites. There are some I don't like. Like the McAdams site information. To me, McAdams is a disinformation agent. But as JFK once said, and as Rob uses as his signature line..."We all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures and we are all mortal." I think all JFK assassination sites can co-exist, although some are a lot closer to the truth in my opinion.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Bob wrote:That forum does have excellent photos. And like all forum's, it can get a little heated in the discussion. As I said, I review other JFK forums from time to time. Some are pretty good, but some spew disinformation. But overall, I still think this site with it's wealth of information AND the forum are the best. I know I'm biased, and this is the only site I am a member of, but that's how I feel. I know some of you belong to others as well as this one, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I just don't have enough time to multi-task (post) with other JFK forums because of my other duties...namely writing. But I also like the information that John and others have brought into this forum from other JFK sites. There are some I don't like. Like the McAdams site information. To me, McAdams is a disinformation agent. But as JFK once said, and as Rob uses as his signature line..."We all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures and we are all mortal." I think all JFK assassination sites can co-exist, although some are a lot closer to the truth in my opinion. I have to go with you on the McAdams site. It's not that there aren't good links there and all, but it seems to me that it leans a little too much toward the Oswald-did-it theory. Then again, I shouldn't judge. I'll put it like this, I wouldn't trust a website run by Gerald Posner. That's where I draw the line!

[ChristophMessner]

After all, I don't think, that there is some fabrication in Pamela's interview transcript with Files. Why should Files fear telling the name of Lansdale, who had died long ago, into his bugged prison phone? Because Lansdale was really high up in the CIA hierarchy. Let's remember how Howard E. Hunt spoke of a "chain of command" in the secret services. This hierarchy was not high with many intermediaries, but flat, only a few steps from top (Dulles, N. Rockefeller) to the organizers (Lansdale, Phillips, Meyer) to the controllers (Hunt, Morales, Bush, Paine) to the infantry (Files, Oswald, Roselli, Bosch, Harrelson) and everone with the exception of the top could be made expendable and been blow up as patsy. Yes John, great picture, the assassins and plotters left casually, blending in, Roger Craig told the truth. Think about the witnesses Norman, Jarman, Williams from the 5th floor. 2 of them ran to the stairs soon after they had heard the shots, but did not see anybody. Courageous of them anyway. Why did they not run up to 6th floor? Because the assassins still were there and stayed there! What was Baker and Truly doing after having talked with Oswald in the 2nd floor? Didn't they search all flats? Bob, John, it's good to not lose oneself in hopping around all fori in the internet, but concentrate on the important one(s). Time is precious and should be focussed on real research, either in the thinking process or in the practical process, calling, interviewing, opening files, making facts. The film, showing the secret service ordering his collegues to stand down from the limo at Love Field Airport already is a REAL PROOF, that some SS was involved in the plot. "Lone assassin" Oswald impossibly could have ordered that! There must exist some more real proof of the snipers and the SS together on photo of film. We have to find and publish that!

[ChristophMessner]

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CO ... tm"...When President John F. Kennedy took office, Lansdale was appointed as Assistant Secretary of Defence for Special Operations. He argued that the CIA should work closely with exiles in Cuba, particularly those with middle-class professions, who had opposed Fulgencio Batista and had then become disillusioned with Fidel Castro because of his betrayal of the democratic process. Lansdale was also opposed to the Bay of Pigs operation because he knew that it would not trigger a popular uprising against Castro. Kennedy respected the advice of Lansdale and selected him to become project leader of Operation Mongoose.... Lansdale later claimed that John F. Kennedy asked him to draft a contingency plan to overthrow Fidel Castro. But he added that the idea had not been viable because it depended on recruiting Cuban exiles to generate an uprising in Cuba, something that he said was impossible....In 1963 Kennedy asked Lansdale to concentrate on the situation in Vietnam. ... Lansdale ... had spent years studying the way Mao Zedong had taken power in China. He often quoted Mao of telling his guerrillas: “Buy and sell fairly. Return everything borrowed. Indemnify everything damaged. Do not bathe in view of women. Do not rob personal belongings of captives.” The purpose of such rules, according to Mao, was to create a good relationship between the army and its people. This was a strategy that had been adopted by the National Liberation Front. Lansdale believed that the US Army should adopt a similar approach. As Cecil B. Currey, the author of Edward Lansdale: The Unquiet American pointed out: “Lansdale was a dedicated anticommunist, conservative in his thoughts. Many people of like persuasion were neither as willing to study their enemy [like Oswald! C.M.] nor as open to adopting communist ideas to use a countervailing force. If for no other reason, the fact makes Lansdale stand out in bold relief to the majority of fellow military men who struggled on behalf of America in those intense years of the cold war.”... Lansdale continued to argue against Lyndon Johnson's decision to try and use military power to win the Vietnam War. When General William Westmoreland argued that: “We're going to out-guerrilla the guerrilla and out-ambush the ambush… because we're smarter, we have greater mobility and fire-power, we have more endurance and more to fight for… And we've got more guts.” Lansdale replied: “All actions in the war should be devised to attract and then make firm the allegiance of the people.” He added “we label our fight as helping the Vietnamese maintain their freedom” but when “we bomb their villages, with horrendous collateral damage in terms of both civilian property and lives… it might well provoke a man of good will to ask, just what freedom of what Vietnamese are we helping to maintain?”Lansdale quoted Robert Taber (The War of the Flea): “There is only one means of defeating an insurgent people who will not surrender, and that is extermination. There is only one way to control a territory that harbours resistance, and that is to turn it into a desert. Where these means cannot, for whatever reason, be used, the war is lost.” Lansdale thought this was the situation in Vietnam and wrote to a friend that if the solution was to “kill every last person in the enemy ranks” then he was “not only morally opposed” to this strategy but knew it was “humanly impossible”.Lansdale added “No idea can be bombed or beaten to death. Military action alone is never enough.” He pointed out that since 1945 the Vietminh had been willing to fight against the strength of both France and the United States in order to ensure success of their own. “Without a better idea, rebels will eventually win, for ideas are defeated only by better ideas.”Lansdale was anti-communist because he really believed in democracy."

[ChristophMessner]

John Beckham wrote:in an enlargement of a Murray photo, 2 men are walking from behind the plaza, 2 detectives are headed towards them. it looks like an older man and to his right a younger man. i need to get some decent software for this!It looks like the two men are Lieutenant Day from the Identification Bureau and Roger Craig. Compare http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WQr4y1j ... =relatedat 1:56 minutes!By the way, Roger Craig tells, how Boone and he found the Mauser 7.65 rifle up at the "head of stairwell goin downstairs" (1:30). If Oswald would have hidden it at this place, wouldn't he have needed more than 64 seconds from shooting to the 2nd floor?