Back to the scene of the crime

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

ChristophMessner wrote:It's always funny to slander about the visible marionettes of the hidden money elite. It's another thing to work on a change of the constitution, so that the elIte is not defined by the highest robbery and lying skills anymore, but by integrity and limitation of richness and poverty.I agree, Christoph. Give Obama a chance, however. Our constitution is sound. Bush didn't change it. They just have a way of ignoring it or going around it because of complicit behavior by others...like the Supreme Court. There are going to be some changes made that coporate swine won't be too happy with...like, um...the new tax plan?

[Bob]

I will give Obama a chance (I voted for him), but he has made some odd choices already, plus I heard that his repeal of the tax cuts for the very rich might not take place for awhile. Two things bothered me about Obama BEFORE the election. Obama is in the CFR, along with McCain and Hillary. Plus, Obama and Hillary had a meeting at the recent Bilderbergers meeting, when it was assumed Obama was going to be the Democratic nominee. I used to be a big Bill Clinton fan as well. Then I started to read about his background as the Governor of Arkansas during the CIA drug trafficking at Mena. It is there that i found out that the Clinton's and the the Bu$h's are tied somewhat at the hip. Both Slick Willie and Poppy made a LOT of money because of Mena. Have you noticed how close Poppy and Slick Willie have been the past couple of years? Read about Barry Seal and how he was tied to Mena...http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKseal.htmSeal was a former member of the LCAP, along with Oswald, Ferrie and others. Seal was also in Group 40. Some have said he was in Dallas to fly out some of the assassins. Seal was the best drug runner in CIA history. Read about WHY he was killed.Anyway, that is where a see a connection between the Clinton's and the Bu$h's. Forget about political parties here. It's ALL about money and power. Obama has made Hillary his Secretary of State. During their debates, that was the area in which he was CLEARLY a better candidate than Hillary because he had a MUCH better vision in terms of foreign policy. Hillary voted for the Iraq war. She was talking about nuking Iran. She is BIG time pro-Israel. It does not make sense to make her Sec. of State. Plus, Obama has also hired several other Clintonites to his team.I know that Obama will be better than Dumbya. But I just hope that Obama is not just another puppet for the rich and powerful elite to pull the strings for their betterment.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

I have to agree with you, Bob. I see 'em all as varying shades of gray. I voted for him initially because he opposed going into Iraq from the start and Hillary voted FOR going to Iraq. Now he made her Secretary of State? I just hope he fixes things enough to make even a little difference. I still have a positive attitude toward him.

[ChristophMessner]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: I agree, Christoph. Give Obama a chance, however. Our constitution is sound. The US constitution IS THE REASON why you have all the problems with money-controlled puppets over there! As long as you do not forbid BY CONSTITUTION, that scrupolous guys can become billionaires on the shoulders of many poors, NO Obama or whoever will change anything! As long as you hope that "leaders" will make it better, you will see, that they won't. Kennedy: "Don't see, what your country can do for you, see, what you can do for your country!" Chris

[John Beckham]

hmmm, Obama...i hope the best for future generations, but i find him frightening. the mid east chose chose him as a fav, but you're already seeing that go sour in Israel. hillary? i can't stand the clintons! they're crooks, liars. remember, how he tried to redefine sex? white water? Foster's "suicide". did you see bill walking away from the funeral laughing, then he saw the cameras were on him, and faked weeping? THEY MAKE ME SICK, like the Bush family makes Bob! Obama, i'll wait and see, but, not getting my hopes up for an honest person to be president!

[Bob]

conspiracybuff wrote:hmmm, Obama...i hope the best for future generations, but i find him frightening. the mid east chose chose him as a fav, but you're already seeing that go sour in Israel. hillary? i can't stand the clintons! they're crooks, liars. remember, how he tried to redefine sex? white water? Foster's "suicide". did you see bill walking away from the funeral laughing, then he saw the cameras were on him, and faked weeping? THEY MAKE ME SICK, like the Bush family makes Bob! Obama, i'll wait and see, but, not getting my hopes up for an honest person to be president!When people hear my take on the Bu$h family, they almost always say my take is political. It's not at all, although I do lean Democratic most of the time. As I said in an earlier post, until I came upon this site, I always respected the Bu$h family, even if I didn't agree with their political positions. But then I learned about their treasonous past and that all went out the window. I also voted for Bill Clinton twice. It took me a few years later to find out that the Clintons were very much like the Bu$h family in terms of wanting money and power, no matter what it costs. I am a journalism major and I do a lot of writing, but my minors are history and political science. I LOVE history, and I still say it is the blueprint for the future. But I have learned to HATE politics. It's ALL about following the money. No matter the party affiliation. Most politicians are bought and paid for. Just like the MSM, which also makes me sad, being a writer. Thank God for the internet, so people can express themselves and that the truth can be exposed. As I have also said, the conspirators that murdered JFK never knew that the internet would ever come to be. They just figured that if they bought the MSM, and controlled the CIA and FBI, plus snuffed out a few folks, that the truth would always stay under the carpet. But we do have the internet. And the Bu$h family knows that sooner or later the truth is going to catch up to them. That is why they have done this...http://www.cco.net/~trufax/general/bush ... p.htmlIt's ironic. Isn't South America the place the Nazi's ran to after WWII? After their war crimes?

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

ChristophMessner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: I agree, Christoph. Give Obama a chance, however. Our constitution is sound. The US constitution IS THE REASON why you have all the problems with money-controlled puppets over there! As long as you do not forbid BY CONSTITUTION, that scrupolous guys can become billionaires on the shoulders of many poors, NO Obama or whoever will change anything! As long as you hope that "leaders" will make it better, you will see, that they won't. Kennedy: "Don't see, what your country can do for you, see, what you can do for your country!" ChrisI have to disagree with you only with regard to the U.S. Constitution. Our constitution is sound, in my opinion. It's the people that work around the Constitution and arrange to have others overlook what they're doing...this is where the problem lies. I'll give you an example. Habeas corpus. It's a pricinpal in the Constitution that basically says that people can't be jailed without charges being brought. It stands for, basically, "Produce the body." People just can't be arrested and held in jail or prison indefinitely without being brought in front of a judge for a proper trial and such. Guantanamo detainees have been treated as if Habeas Corpus doesn't exist. Held indefinitely without a hearing and no official charges...just rounded up. You see, Christoph? It's not the U.S. Constitution that's the problem. I'm always hesitant about suggestions that we change it...The Second Amendment (the one about guns), for example, is there to protect the citizens from our own government if it suddenly decides to turn into a tyranny (not that it basically isn't already seeming to go that way...LOL). There are actually people out here who want to repeal the second amendment or do away with it? Why? Only law abiding citizens are allowed to legally own guns anyway. We're not the ones going out and robbing liquor stores. Anyway, do you see what I'm talking about? I'll give you another example. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys!!! Isn't Congress supposed to be the ones to officially declare war according to our Constitution? I mean, I know the President can mobilize the military for a certain period of time but isn't the President eventually required to get Congressional approval or demobilize the troops? I understand emergency actions and such, but Bush kept changing the reasons why we're in Iraq...first it was WMD, then Al Quaeda (Who weren't there until WE got there!).Anyway, what I'm basically saying is that I don't think Bush went along with our Constitution. He appears to have just ignored it...and Cheney too. I doubt that writing a new Constition or changing the one we have here in the U.S. is going to change the actions of people like Bush and Cheney. See what I mean?

[Jsnow915]

The problem with people like Cheney and Bush is abuse of power...its like the Nixon/Frost trailer..."when the President does it ,it's not against the law"...just the connections alone to the whole Iraq thing...W. gave Daddy a present...Cheney gave Haliburton a present..and their oil buddies got a present...God save us if Jeb gets into the Senate,you'll see another Bush running for president.

[ChristophMessner]

Bob wrote: It took me a few years later to find out ... That's a decisive sentence, Bob. We have to realistically see, that the intellectual and moral level, which is capable of looking behind political scenes, faces and masks, is still a tiny minority in the world and it's no reason to hate politics just for representing a projection of this situation still. History is full of "bad" politics in this sense. Rather be patient and confident. The human's developement takes milleniums. The internet urges the highly morally sensibal human to millions of most urgent needs for amendments of politics, which can frustrate completely, if not fulfilled immediately. Exercise patience. Just step by step. Your propaganda for more truth is a great step already. The results will come by the 22nd century. If you have some money left, you can establish yourself being a very decisive multiplicator already with serial mails, webpages and lectures.Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: You see, Christoph? It's not the U.S. Constitution that's the problem. I'm always hesitant about suggestions that we change it... Pasquale, thank you for your very important and detailed considerations on that! Well, nobody/nothing is perfect one could say to that, couldn't we? Everything is amendable, isn't it? I agree with your points on the valuable parts of the US-constituions almost completely and I agree that lead on paper does not make good humans automatically. It is correct, that it's humans, the people and the leaders themselves who have to act according to the spirit of a good constitution, and that recent examples document the ever possible misuse of powers despite a good constitution. But I want to pronounce furthermore, that despite the fact the the US-Constitution is still a matter of hope for the world for it's freedom rights and religious tolerance, the core of this Constitution still shows a decisive black spot, which spoils the whole rest in the frame. This black heart is even so black, that it can turn all these freedom rights into skull and bones instantly when it comes to the scales and it does come to the scales very often in history, for example when the country is in emergancy or when money and not truth wins at court or anywhere else. It's the wrong concept of property rights. This leads to a wrong concept of theoretical individual limitless freedom and limitless exploitation of nature, foreign countries and each other. The truth is: humans don't possess anything in this world, it's just all only borrowed from earth in their lifetime, we all "possess" all and we have to share to have freedom at all. Not the only individual pursuit of happiness is the way to freedom, but the common share and not freedom is the main thing, but adequate measure and behavior. Can we free from earth? But please give me some time to look it after and explain it more precicely. I'm not a Marxist. Marx was no Marxist either. The Kennedy-murder-case has much to do with this black spot in the constitution and the killing of the Kennedy does not so much send the message to us that we should find the murderers, the most know them anyway more or less already, but that we should work on an improvement of constitution and justice consciousness, so that such things cannot happen this way anymore. Jsnow915 wrote:God save us if Jeb gets into the Senate,you'll see another Bush running for president. You will have democracy with good representatives, once you reckognize that there is no God who is doing that job but you yourself, who has to inform people about the disqualifications of a Jeb Bush and do a lot more to educate people so that they never would elect somebody who is flying drug lords into the country and so on. As long as only presidential candidates can win, who get enough money from the billionairs or corrupt inside trading "family" members, we are still in stone age.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Very good points, in my opinion, Christoph.Easier said than done. I have a feeling that even if the U.S. did make changes in its constitution and such, there would still be people like Bush and Cheney getting away with stuff. Don't forget that one of the real problems in this situation is the behavior of muli-national corporations. THEY'RE the ones running the show here because they're the ones with the money! The U.S. isn't the only place that they play their games. I think you're on the right track with some very sound ideas. I personally think that the problem lies in how little the general or mainstream public know about what's going on. I think that the more we put the word out, the less of chance that people will have to be fooled. There are actually people out there who don't know about how JFK was murdered. I have a friend who is married with two beautiful daughters, nice house, and he thinks that there MIGHT have been a conspiracy in the JFK killing. MIGHT be a conspiracy. MIGHT??? Like it's up to question? He also has never actually looked at the Zapruder film! Can you believe it? He's a former Marine, so he understands how bullets travel and transfer energy and momentum, but he hasn't even really looked at the film. When I told him what the film shows, he couldn't believe it. That's when I told him "It's that easy to fool the public, isn't it? It's done in plain site! You can access the Zapruder film on-line anytime you like, and you haven't to this day because you didn't think the information it had was that blantant and obvious, but it is!" The villains we're talking about (Bush and the rest) can only really be beat with an INFORMED public. If the general public knew what went on and what is STILL going on, they wouldn't allow it. It is, after all, taxpayer money that they are using. The evil ones win when people don't know what is going on. They are being deceived daily in the news. Important things are either not mentioned on the TV news, or they're burried at the bottom in the middle of the newpaper as opposed to the front page. Bush, for example, appointed 45 people yesterday (or the day before that...not sure) to various posts. He's been very active trying to deregulate even moreso. Nobody in the mainstream media talks about it. I think the more we inform people, the less of a chance they have to get away with the things they do. I mean...most people out there believe that there was a conspiracy to murder JFK, however most of them don't even know the details. They just have that opinion because so many of us have spoken out about it, and they know from their own experiences that there's corruption out there. If they really knew the details, they'd be ANGRY! If they knew how guys like Dan Rather and Arlen Specter LIED, they'd be ANGRY. Look at Specter...Mr. Magic Bullet guy. He said yesterday, I believe, that he has information about one of Obama's appointees that, he says, Obama doesn't know about. Who the hell is this guy? He gets away with it because most people out there don't know that he is basically responsible for the Magic Bullet theory, for example. If they knew that, they wouldn't take him seriously at all, and he wouldn't be in the position he's in today...to be quoted by the media and such. Anyway, good points, Christoph. I'm going to continue informing as many people as I can. When I do, I always tell them to Google the facts and decide for themselves.