Israeli involvement in 9/11 and spying on the U.S.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Martin Hinrichs wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:More on David Irving. Here are another two parts of the same video/speech that David Irving gave.Some of the interesting things he says are below. I'm paraphrasing and not quoting him.He mentions that if Jews were killed in concentration camps, it was not a crime because they were Jews but because they were INNOCENT Jews or INNOCENT people. He says that it was not their Jewishness that made it a crime. He goes on to say that the Jewish Community doesn't want that definition of it and that is why they invented the term genocide (the killing of a race) because that's where they make money out of it. He reasons that if you enlarge the concept of who was killed in prison camps in WWII into the killing of ANY innocent people, then all sorts of people qualify too. He gives examples of German civilians being killed, Japanese civilians being killed, American troops in Japanese prison camps, etc. He further says that all sorts of INNOCENT people, who were not Jewish, suffered nameless horrors in WWII, but they largely haven't been able to claim a nickel for it.He further says that the term Genocide is useful, to those who throw it around, because it limits the list of those who are entitled to the MONEY. As an example, he says that American taxpayers give billions of dollars to the state of Israel because we are somehow made to feel guilty about their "genocide" by the media. Anyone who complains about it is labeled an anti-semite.He further questions what really happened at the Auschwitz prison camp. He said that the number of those killed was revised from 4 million to about 1 million but that the number that is still thrown around is still 6 million. He also says that the Auschwitz prison camp was tested by an American gas chamber expert and that there was NO trace of poison gas found in the walls or any of the brickwork or fabric of the structures there except for the brickwork found in one little gas chamber where there was a LOT of cyanide gas residue or traces found. That one little gas chamber was used to dis-infest clothing from lice and such. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqfLhMPk ... 2EmDG_WC4I cannot believe what i read here.If you believe anything about this maniac called Irving, then you are seriously degenerated and disorientated.Have you been ever in Europe and visited a former KZ?Come to Germany and i show you one. I promise you after that, you have the great desire to erase all this crap here.Also, what is visiting Germany going to do to supposedly change my mind? I also suggest that you watch your tone. Calling someone "seriously degenerated" and "disorientated" just because you don't agree with them is kind of silly. It's name-calling. Maybe I struck a nerve with you? I could very easily say that your response to this thread is "degenerated" and "crap," but I won't because it's insulting. LOLThen again, if you insist.....

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Martin Hinrichs wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:More on David Irving. Here are another two parts of the same video/speech that David Irving gave.Some of the interesting things he says are below. I'm paraphrasing and not quoting him.He mentions that if Jews were killed in concentration camps, it was not a crime because they were Jews but because they were INNOCENT Jews or INNOCENT people. He says that it was not their Jewishness that made it a crime. He goes on to say that the Jewish Community doesn't want that definition of it and that is why they invented the term genocide (the killing of a race) because that's where they make money out of it. He reasons that if you enlarge the concept of who was killed in prison camps in WWII into the killing of ANY innocent people, then all sorts of people qualify too. He gives examples of German civilians being killed, Japanese civilians being killed, American troops in Japanese prison camps, etc. He further says that all sorts of INNOCENT people, who were not Jewish, suffered nameless horrors in WWII, but they largely haven't been able to claim a nickel for it.He further says that the term Genocide is useful, to those who throw it around, because it limits the list of those who are entitled to the MONEY. As an example, he says that American taxpayers give billions of dollars to the state of Israel because we are somehow made to feel guilty about their "genocide" by the media. Anyone who complains about it is labeled an anti-semite.He further questions what really happened at the Auschwitz prison camp. He said that the number of those killed was revised from 4 million to about 1 million but that the number that is still thrown around is still 6 million. He also says that the Auschwitz prison camp was tested by an American gas chamber expert and that there was NO trace of poison gas found in the walls or any of the brickwork or fabric of the structures there except for the brickwork found in one little gas chamber where there was a LOT of cyanide gas residue or traces found. That one little gas chamber was used to dis-infest clothing from lice and such. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqfLhMPk ... 2EmDG_WC4I cannot believe what i read here.If you believe anything about this maniac called Irving, then you are seriously degenerated and disorientated.Have you been ever in Europe and visited a former KZ?Come to Germany and i show you one. I promise you after that, you have the great desire to erase all this crap here.So, Martin,I'm very curious to know your answer to my questions. Are you only referring to the David Irving information, or are you referring to this topic in general regarding Israeli involvement in 9/11 and spying on the U.S.?If you're only referring to the David Irving material, I would love for you to tell me why specifically you don't like it. I'm being very serious here. Perhaps you can enlighten me and the rest of those who are reading this.I know that David Irving is NOT an anti-Semite. Regarding the "holocaust," Irving seems to have a problem with it only being a Jewish thing when many other innocent people of other ethnic backgrounds and religions also died in massive numbers in WWII. Look at all the innocent Germans who were firebombed. They were killed in mass numbers, but the media doesn't talk about them as much. David Irving also said that even if only ONE innocent Jew died in WWII, it's still crime because the person was INNOCENT and NOT because he/she was JEWISH. So, again, I'm curious about your answers regarding why you don't like the David Irving material.

[Martin Hinrichs]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Martin Hinrichs wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Are you only referring to the David Irving information, or are you referring to this topic in general regarding Israeli involvement in 9/11 and spying on the U.S.? Pasquale, i'am refering of course to Irving who is undoubtly degenerated and an anti semitic racist.Once you have visited a former KZ, you'll face the truth. Come over here and i'll be your guide.You will face appaling footages you have never seen before. You feel the sorrow and tragic in your veins when you areat the ground zero of Holocaust. You will have great trouble to repeat what you've told here to the Jews whom are praying and singing to their murdered relatives.Here are people from many nations. You hear many different languages. Russian, Hungarian, Netherlands, Poland etc. All were victims of the crime state called Germany at that time.One group above all has suffered the most. The jews.I don't know why this guy Irving making a big deal with the number of jews who died???The latest educated estimate ranges from 5.7 millions to 6.3. If it were lesser does it make the crime lesser guilty? I'am talking about humanity, empathy and altruism.I wish to have this Irving here and to make a journey with him in a former KZ's.Bergen Belsen is very close to my home. More than 50.000 persons have died in this KZ.Most of them were Jews.In the middle you see Fritz Klein, the doctor of Bergen Belsen, a former guide of Birkenau. Birkenau in Auschwitz was the melting pot of annihilation in the Nazi regime.This is the grave of Anne Frank in Bergen Belsen.Have you read her diary? I did.You are walking on thin ice when you are following the footsteps of Irving.You need some serious education.Do me a favour. If you have kids....please don't tell them anything about Irving's theories.Thanks

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Martin Hinrichs wrote:Pasquale, i'am refering of course to Irving who is undoubtly degenerated and an anti semitic racist.Once you have visited a former KZ, you'll face the truth. Come over here and i'll be your guide.You will face appaling footages you have never seen before. You feel the sorrow and tragic in your veins when you areat the ground zero of Holocaust. You will have great trouble to repeat what you've told here to the Jews whom are praying and singing to their murdered relatives.Here are people from many nations. You hear many different languages. Russian, Hungarian, Netherlands, Poland etc. All were victims of the crime state called Germany at that time.One group above all has suffered the most. The jews.I don't know why this guy Irving making a big deal with the number of jews who died???The latest educated estimate ranges from 5.7 millions to 6.3. If it were lesser does it make the crime lesser guilty? I'am talking about humanity, empathy and altruism.I wish to have this Irving here and to make a journey with him in a former KZ's.Bergen Belsen is very close to my home. More than 50.000 persons have died in this KZ.Most of them were Jews.In the middle you see Fritz Klein, the doctor of Bergen Belsen, a former guide of Birkenau. Birkenau in Auschwitz was the melting pot of annihilation in the Nazi regime.This is the grave of Anne Frank in Bergen Belsen.Have you read her diary? I did.You are walking on thin ice when you are following the footsteps of Irving.You need some serious education.Do me a favour. If you have kids....please don't tell them anything about Irving's theories.ThanksI have no doubt, and I'm sure that David Irving doesn't doubt either, that innocent Jews were murdered and that they were murdered in massive numbers. The only difference is that lots of other people who were NOT Jewish were murdered in massive numbers too. You say "One group above all has suffered the most. The jews. I don't know why this guy Irving making a big deal with the number of jews who died???"How do you know "One group above all has suffered the most." If the numbers are changing due to new information, how do you know that "one group has suffered the most"? You also claim to not know why David Irving is "making a big deal with the number of Jews who died..." The numbers, Martin, matter because if new information that is coming out shows that a lot less Jews were killed than originally thought, it starts to look LESS and LESS like a Jewish thing and more like just plain wartime and a Nazi regime that got rid of (by killing or putting in prison) anyone who stood in their way. Why are you making it all about the Jews? Are you Jewish? I'm sure those former prison camps are very emotionally moving, and I'm not minimizing the suffering that went on there. Why do YOU minimize the suffering of other people who were not Jewish? If the numbers of Jews who were killed is uncertain, and if the forensic evidence does not support Auschwitz as being a place where Jews were gassed to death, it should matter to you. We're learning all sorts of things from documents that are coming out regarding JFK, Nixon, etx. Why is it different for you regarding WWII?My understanding is that the official number of people who died in Auschwitz has been reduced by some 3 million...from about 4 million to only 1 million. Isn't this true? If it is true, how do you KNOW that Jews suffered the most? Do you know how many Russians and Japanese, Italians, and Americans, etc., were also killed? I'm talking about civilians too, and yet you buy into, and accept without question, that Jews have "suffered the most." I think that's nonsense based on evidence that has come out over the past two decades. If there is NO evidence that Jews were gassed in Auschwitz other than statements by supposed witnesses, I think it takes looking into. I'll put it to you another way. Lots of people who hear people like me presenting evidence of Israeli involvement in 9/11 call people like me anti-Semitic. Why? You say you have no problem with the evidence I presented about Israeli involvement in 9/11. Thousands of innocent people were killed in 9/11, and I'm flat-out presenting evidence of Israeli involvement, and yet you don't have a problem. Then when I present the David Irving material as food for thought, you tell me that all I have to do is go to Germany and look at whatever because somehow it's going to move me emotionally and spiritually. How is visiting a former prison camp going to change facts? Terrible things happened there, but I refuse to give Jews all the sympathy. It's people like you, it seems, who get blinded by emotionally moving images and media manipulation to the point that you just buy into it. In America, for example, Jewish people do quite well. They appear to dominate the media here especially. I don't have an issue with that at all as long as they're on OUR side and not doing things like funding operations like 9/11 or spying on us and giving their true loyalty to a foreign country like Israel. If you want to see oppressed people, take a look at South Central Los Angeles. How many Jews do you see living in poverty there? LOL I should take YOU for a tour here in Los Angeles, and you can tell me just how much the Jews are suffering here. Maybe YOU need the education about what is going on. Again, what about all those innocent Japanese civilians who were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What about all the Russians who were killed? What about the Americans who were in prison camps or the innocent German civilians who were bombed? Did they not suffer too? Of course they did. They died in massive numbers too, but in your eyes, they don't matter as much because they're not Jews. How can you say that David Irving is an anti-Semite when he says himself that if even ONE Jew was killed it's still a crime? Have you even looked at the video links of David Irving I posted? Irving is only saying that it's crime because INNOCENT Jews were killed and that their Jewishness doesn't make it more of a crime. He is honestly saying that he has uncovered NO evidence of any plan to exterminate Jews as a race by the Nazis. None. Zero. That's my understanding of what he's saying. According to Irving, there is not one document linking Hitler to any type of genocide. There is not one original document (government document or even a personal letter written by a Nazi soldier or whatever) saying anything about the Nazi's trying to exterminate all Jews or gassing them. The Nazi's appeared to have been exterminating ANYONE who opposed them regardless of whether they were Jewish or not. I suspect that it was the Zionist-controlled media that made that myth up, and people like you just buy into it. As I said above, I also understand that the number of people who died at Auschwitz was greatly reduced, and I'm looking into it. I understand that the Auschwitz museum changed the number of people killed...reduced the number by some 3 million. Isn't that true? If it IS true, then it matters a great deal because then it just doesn't look like the Jews "suffered the most." Maybe you're Jewish too, and maybe that makes you a little sensitive to the information? So, in my humble opinion, David Irving is definitely NOT an anti-Semite. He's a historian. As for what I might tell my kids, I'll do THEM a favor and teach them to think for themselves and not just dismiss someone's information without looking at it.

[kenmurray]

Gentlemen, look at these:http://www.auschwitz.dk/Auschwitz.htmht ... mp.htmlThe World At War: Genocidehttp://war.docuwat.ch/videos/?alternative=2&channel_id=0&skip=0&subpage=video&video_id=20

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

kenmurray wrote:Gentlemen, look at these:http://www.auschwitz.dk/Auschwitz.htmht ... mp.htmlThe World At War: Genocidehttp://war.docuwat.ch/videos/?alternative=2&channel_id=0&skip=0&subpage=video&video_id=20I'm still looking for links that the number of supposed people who died aT Auschwitz was reduced by some 3 million. I want to make it clear that I too believe that if eve ONE Jewish person died, it's still a horrible thing. I just don't share the opinion that "Jews suffered the most," particularly in light of information that is continually coming out. The sad fact of the matter is that war is war. Lots of OTHER people, non-Jewish people, died in mass numbers. I'm talking about INNOCENT civilians.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

kenmurray wrote:Gentlemen, look at these:http://www.auschwitz.dk/Auschwitz.htmht ... mp.htmlThe World At War: Genocidehttp://war.docuwat.ch/videos/?alternative=2&channel_id=0&skip=0&subpage=video&video_id=20Gentlemen,Take a look at THIS link and pictures below.The top picture shows the OLD memorial plate (or whatever it's called) at Auschwitz-Birkenau stating that roughly four million people suffered and died in Auschwitz-Birkenau, and the bottom picture shows the NEW memorial plate (or whatever its proper name is) stating that only about 1.5 million died there.So, why does the magic "6 million" number still get thrown around? What kind of math is being used to subtract a couple of million from six million and wind up with six million anyway? Maybe the six million figure is still used for propaganda purposes? The article states, under the picture of the old memorial plate,"Old marker removed in 1990 at Auschwitz-Birkenau after research revealed propagandistic nature of number of deaths. However, this change did not alter overall number of 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust."http://chgs.umn.edu/museum/memorials/auschBirkMem/My point is this. If the numbers are changing drastically to the point that even the Auschwitz caretakers/owners greatly reduced the number of people who died there by at least a couple of million, how can anyone say with certainty that "Jews suffered the most" in WWII? Are the people who run the Auschwitz memorial/museum racist and anti-Semitic too? No Documentation proved it. We're not talking about a couple of hundred thousand. We're talking about a couple of MILLION at least, and yet the 6 million number is STILL thrown around by the mainstream media. What gives? Might it have something to do with the state of Israel and all the money that we give them to supposedly "defend" themselves? Do you see my point?

[Martin Hinrichs]

Ok, i see.I've expected to talk to a sane person. My mistake.Please let me allow one question.Who is responsible for your dilemma? Who brought you on that track?Jim Fetzer?

[Dealey Joe]

Could someone explain to me what or who is a Jew?

[Martin Hinrichs]

Dealey Joe wrote:Could someone explain to me what or who is a Jew?Joe, Jew's is a group, who is in most cases innocent murdered the last 2 thousands yearsfollowing a religion which upset many people it appears.Jew is a religion group who suffered the most of all in the last centuries.Many, but not most living in Israel meanwhile.The most in the USA.PF, don't know much about it.The mass murder of the Jews with full knowledgde was Adolf Hitler.His followers murdered ~6 millions Jews.It was a genocide.In case you will ever be here, i show you the truth. You are invited.best to youMartin