Seamus Coogan on John Hankey

[Michael Dell]

Bob, I'm sorry for your loss. I wish you and your family well. And I look forward to reading your upcoming article...

[Bob]

Thanks Michael, I appreciate it.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote:Bob wrote:Seamus, I'm glad you responded. As I WELL know, there will always be people that will disagree with takes on any given story. That will NEVER change. You know I respect your work, but I also respect the opinions of others in this forum. I have pretty much hit on the major disagreements I have with you on your story. It's stuff we have debated since we first met. Bottom line, you spent a lot of time and effort on this story. You have brought out some of the shortcomings of John Hankey's work to be sure. But as I have also said, I believe the overall premise of Hankey's work was accurate. But he did make some assumptions that were most likely incorrect. Still, the man deserves a chance to respond to your story, whether it be on Black Op Radio, CTKA or wherever. Finally, as I also said earlier, it's too bad that no one in the lone nut community does the type of work that Seamus did on one of their own. Whatever Dave Perry says, Larry "The Fable Guy" Dunkel (Gary Mack ) does. Vince Bugliosi could say that Charles Manson and Lee Harvey Oswald were brothers and David Von Pein would nod and say yes. The problem with the CT side is that we infight too much. Yes...we ALL agree it was a conspiracy, but there are arguments about the conspirators, the shooters, the wounds, the autopsy, the Zapruder film etc. Even with all of that, I think we have never been closer to the truth than we are today, thanks to the fantastic books by Jim Douglass and Doug Horne. Meanwhile, let the debate continue, but let's be respectful of each other's opinions please. Nice points there. Bob lad. Get off your ass and get us that piece you and Joe have worked on. I want a rough you SOB lol. I like what you wrote here. Finally, as I also said earlier, it's too bad that no one in the lone nut community does the type of work that Seamus did on one of their own. Whatever Dave Perry says, Larry "The Fable Guy" Dunkel (Gary Mack ) does. Vince Bugliosi could say that Charles Manson and Lee Harvey Oswald were brothers and David Von Pein would nod and say yes. The problem with the CT side is that we infight too much. Yes...we ALL agree it was a conspiracy, but there are arguments about the conspirators, the shooters, the wounds, the autopsy, the Zapruder film etc. Even with all of that, I think we have never been closer to the truth than we are today, thanks to the fantastic books by Jim Douglass and Doug Horne.This is very important and it should be noted. They are not a community they are cutouts. Funded cutouts. Its a very good observation. Oh Bob I have something for you Ill get Ken to put it up on a new post.In terms of the story I'm doing for CTKA, I'm working on it right now. I've gotten a bit sidetracked with some things, plus it's been a bit of a rough go of things with my family, as my dad's brother passed away yesterday. GREAT guy too. Played college football at Notre Dame when he was younger, but that stinking Parkinsons disease really took it's toll on him later in life. Bottom line, he raised a great family and was a great uncle. I'll miss him. My dad is the last of the Mohicans in his family now. Anyway, these past few weeks in my life has REALLY sucked. It's moments like those when family and friends count most...and this forum has helped me get through some difficult times in my life.Notre Dame wow thats a hardcase. Theyre my fave college team. Sorry for the bum rush you have been having. And I gotta say I enjoy our debates immensely mate and every now and again bro you have a little nugget of wisdom in there ie your recent post in this link concerning Lone Nut in house cleaning BS. That was excellent. I also loved that little piece on Huffington Post. That was inspired. So I just wish to god you would hurry up and realize I am right about everything! ROFL Hope this cheers you up!

[SeamusCoogan]

But it's not a debate. I was making a request. I'm asking you to please treat your future subjects with more respect. When they show respect for real research, generations of researchers that have poured blood sweat and tears into the case, when they don't make up clearly ludicrous scenarios thats when I'll show them the respect they deserve Mike. This business is not for the weak of heart. It does get ugly. Carl Ogelsby made a sage comment about reseachers "We must be careful of running off into the ether of our own imaginations". Now think for a minute how insulting JFK II is when its name purports to be a sequel of this great film about Jim Garrison, utilises David Lifton a man who considered Garrison a pedophile (that is utterly false) and then proceeds to tell us George Bush went and threatened J Edgar Hoover with a dart gun. Amongst many others. I found Hankeys work deeply insulting to the memory of many deceased veterans who busted their balls getting the truth out there. So I'm sorry Mike, I take insulting the truth in this case rather personally and judging by the positive emails I have received so do many others. So if you wanna make it out to be a hit piece then sure. Most people would consider it an education however. Im asking people to please indulge in real and vigorous research on the topic at hand. Furthermore I did not enjoy anything I wrote I about Hankey, in fact Hankeys piece left me deeply depressed.

[Bob]

SeamusCoogan wrote:Michael Dell wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote: I've never heard or seen Michael Dell before. Then we're even. You obviously havent been listening to BOR, seen the CTKA website,listened to my interview with HB McLain nor a host of other things.Now its not really a blow to my ego, what it indicates however is that you are out of the loop in terms of the Kennedy assassination. Hell if your not even visiting Jim's site like the rest of the lads on here do regularly, then you might be in a spot of bother in a debate on here hence I shall go easy with you. I'm not asking you to hold hands with anyone, nor do you have to agree with Mr. Hankey's work. If Mr. Hankey made mistakes, tell me what they are without all the sarcasm and assorted nonsense. I want to learn. And I learned nothing from that article other than the nature of its author. That review was a hit piece. Period. And I maintain it's a perfect example of why the Kennedy assassination community remains fractured. I only hope people treat you with more respect when evaluating your work.I have already listed the multitude of his mistakes in my work. It was depressing enough the first time. [/b] Did I say his? Wow because no wonder I have never heard of you on here. Because it appears you joined the other day on the 20th. Lol, and your most active forum has been this one. Now, forgive me for being suspicious here but wouldn't it be funny if this is John Hankey under an assumed name lol. I've busted people doing this kinda thing before on this very forum. So if it is John well this is what happens mate when you make mistakes in this game. Its brutal and the aftermath is not nice.Were my piece on Hankey/yourself just one liners and sarcasm then your arguments would hold water. Unfortunately its not, and unfortunately for you I see no need to continue debating with you John/Mark whomever. I have bigger fish to fry[/b]STOP THE PRESS: My apologies to Mike Dell he is authentic and bar his judgment on John Hankey is a bloody good Ice Hockey writer. His articles can be seen here.http://www.lcshockey.com/I'm an Oilers man myself what say you Bob, Ken, Mike? anyone?Small world once again. Most people here know I also write about sports. Mostly football, but other sports as well. I LOVE hockey. I love college hockey and olympic hockey. I can't wait for the U.S.A. vs. Canada game tonight in the olympics. I also am a big time University of Wisconsin hockey follower, where the Badgers have won 6 national championships. I also follow the NHL, and I occassionly write for a site in the Tampa Bay area that covers the Lightning. The Bolts have bounced back this year and are in the hunt for a playoff berth again. Last year it was different. Here was an article I wrote then to try to keep up the spirits of the faithful...Sweet Memories Of The Stanley Cup A Good Medicine Right Now By BOB FOXJoeBoltsFan.com analyst Fox writes for numerous publications and is an occasional contributor to JoeBoltsFan.com. Given the Lightning’s struggles, Fox wanted to take a moment to remember the good old days. The current version of the Tampa Bay Lightning is certainly a mess. Fans of the Bolts have seen this type of misery before, especially in the early days of the franchise. But the Stanley Cup run in 2004 was something truly unforgettable. And those memories can help fans get through these tough times.I was fortunate enough to go to one game in each playoff series in that run, and the Bolts won each time I was there.The Islanders The Lightning started their trek to Lord Stanley by facing the New York Islanders in the first series. The Bolts had a 3-1 series lead as they played Game 5 at the St. Pete Times Forum. I was there with a couple of buddies and the Lightning had a chance to clinch the series. Nicolai Khabibulin had been terrific in goal all series long, as he had three shutouts going entering the game. Game five went to overtime, and Marty St. Louis was Mr. Clutch again and won the game with a fairly long slap shot from the left side. The crowd went wild. It was great to be there as the teams did the handshakes at the end of the game which is a custom in the NHL after a playoff series ends.The Canadiens Thanks to my friends at 620 WDAE-AM, The Sports Animal, I had tickets to Game 1 of the next series vs. the Montreal Canadiens. My most vivid memory before the game was a couple of mouthy Montreal fans who kept telling anyone that would listen that Bolts fans did NOT know hockey and that they were the resident experts. The Lightning ended up winning Game 1 as Vinny Lecavalier had two goals and an assist in a 4-0 whitewash. My buddy and I saw the same two mouthy Canadien fans after the game in the plaza, but they were hightailing out of there in a hurry. We also ran into another obnoxious Canadiens fan a little later, but after I told him to “Shut your yap” John Tortorella style (okay, there were other colorful words used), the guy meekly went away. The Lightning ended up sweeping the Habs four games to zip in the series, including a fantastic finish in Game 3 in Montreal, when Vinny Lecavalier scored his fifth goal of the series with 16.5 seconds left to force overtime. Brad Richards then won it in overtime to shock the crowd as the Bolts won 4-3. The Bolts then finished off the Habs two nights later 3-1.The Flyers The next series was against the tough Philadelphia Flyers for the Eastern Conference crown and the right to play for the Stanley Cup. I went to Game 1 with friends, all big Lightning fans, but a couple were former Flyers fans, ironically. As one expected, the Flyers fans in attendance at the Forum were loud and obnoxious, but the Bolts and their fans had the last laugh as the Lightning won 3-1. The rest of the series was a knock-down, drag-out type of war. The Flyers were led by Keith Primeau. Richards paced the Bolts with two game-winning goals in the series. The Lightning ended up winning in seven games, after an excruciating loss in Game 6 at Philly, losing 5-4 in OT, in a game the Bolts should have won. The Lightning came back to win game seven at the Forum by a score of 2-1 as Khabibulin was brilliant again. The Lightning now would be playing for the Stanley Cup championship.The Stanley Cup The Bolts’ opponent would be the tough Calgary Flames, who would be led by Jarome Iginla and goalie Miikka Kiprusoff. But nothing was easy in this series as the Bolts lost game one at home 4-1, but bounced back to win by the same score as Khabby was excellent, and Richards played lights out again. Kiprusoff shut out the Bolts 3-0 in Game 3 and the Lightning had their backs to the wall going into Game 4. But once again, Khabibulin was phenomenal as the Bolts won 1-0 as Richards again scored the game winning goal. Also, this game also had the moment when Lecavalier had his head rammed into the side glass by Calgary’s Ville Nieminen. That win would set up Game 5 at the Forum. However, the Bolts lost 3-2 in OT sending the Lightning to Calgary in a do-or-die situation behind 3 games to 2. Game 6 was one of the greatest hockey games I ever saw. The Lightning ended up winning 3-2 in the second overtime as Richards had two goals in the game, but it was St. Louis that hit the game winner in the second overtime to set up Game 7 at the Forum in Tampa. A friend of mine was able to get his hands on some very pricey tickets for game seven, as two friends and I went to the game. As I sometimes do, I called Steve Duemig on his show on WDAE on the way to the game. Steve and I discussed the keys to the game, and I had my Nostradamus moment then. For some reason, I said Ruslan Fedetenko would have a big night. Fedetenko DID have a big night, as he scored the Bolts only two goals in a 2-1 victory over the Flames. Khabby was brilliant yet again, and Richie ended up winning the Conn Smythe trophy as MVP of the playoffs. But the biggest prize was seeing the Bolts win the Stanley Cup and lifting the trophy high in the air and passing it from teammate to teammate. Dave Andreychuk was the first to get Lord Stanley, as he had just won his first Stanley Cup after 22 years in the NHL. Then everyone else got their chance. Vinny, Richie, Marty, Khabby, Fedetenko, Dan Boyle, Fredrik Modin, Tim Taylor, Darryl Sydor and all the other members of the team all got to lift Lord Stanley and skate around. The crowd erupted when Tortorella lifted the Cup. That game had to be the biggest sports moment of my life, as I was there to witness the event in person. I have seen similar things in football and in baseball, but actually being there…and being at HOME…made it so special. I was fortunate to be one of the 22,717 that night at the Forum. The journey for Lord Stanley started on April 8th as the Bolts played their first playoff game against the Islanders. But the journey didn’t end until the Bolts had won 16 playoff games, including the last one for the right to lift Lord Stanley on June 7th. It was a two month ordeal. Some say the most difficult obstacle in all of sports. I will always treasure the memory.Yes, things look a little bleak now for the Bolts. But the Lightning has been down this road before. The Bolts have also been to the mountain top as well. And I was there to witness it, just like 22,716 others.

[SeamusCoogan]

Where did the Oilers go wrong chief the've been crap for awhile, well not crap but really average I think when God left and Jagger they went down. Have they had crap picks or what?

[SeamusCoogan]

ThomZajac wrote:We all have our blind spots- Seamus (and myself) included of course.Lol thats a classic mate! My to and toos still suck by the way!

[Bob]

It all started with the ownership situation there. You knew it was bad when they traded the GREAT ONE to the Kings. But the Oilers had a great run. 5 Stanley Cups in 7 years. Not bad my friend. I think the Lightning would have had a chance to repeat in 2005 if not for the strike. By the way, as Michael surely knows, the Penguins first Stanley Cup team in 1991 was coached by Badger Bob Johnson, who had led the Wisconsin Badgers to several NCAA titles. Also, Bob's son Mark (a Badger) scored two goals in the U.S.A.'s victory over the Soviet Union in the 1980 Miracle on Ice olympic game.

[Michael Dell]

Seamus, While I appreciate your passion for the subject matter and your willingness to hold fellow researchers to high standards, I, personally, think we'd all be better served with a bit more decorum. Someone else could just as easily shred your review for strawmen arguments and logical fallacies, casting you in the same questionable light. But what's the point? It doesn't get us closer to truth. You've called John Hankey a con man and insulted his character more than once in this thread and in your review. I'd be interested to know if you've ever spoken to Mr. Hankey. Did you even bother to email him and voice your concerns before penning the article? How much do you even know about the man? I'm just saying it would be nice if we worked together in pursuit of truth. I mean, I don't understand why it's so hard to simply state, "I don't agree with that, and here's why..." without the insults and personal attacks. And I believe that same courtesy should be extended to the Gary Macks of the world. Calling him an idiot doesn't make us any smarter. After all, you take Mr. Hankey to task for being "sensationalistic," but couldn't the same charge be levied against the tone of your review? If Kennedy assassination research is a "nasty" business, as you say it is, then it's that way because we choose to make it so. It's a choice. And I guess I'm asking you and everyone else to choose wisely.I'm sorry if you perceive my criticism as disrespectful or argumentative. That isn't my intention. But clearly, if you're saying you've received nothing but applause for the piece, then you must at least be willing to acknowledge a differing viewpoint. It will only serve to strengthen your future work. Of course, if I find the tone of your review distasteful, it's only because I recognize the same weaknesses in myself. If the parts I found to be arrogant, sarcastic, and belittling didn't already exist within me, I wouldn't be so quick to recognize them in others. Anyway, thank you for joining the thread and responding to my posts. I appreciate your time, and I wish you well. After all, we're brothers in hockey. And, yes, I am the very same hockey writer you mentioned. I've been writing about the NHL for a good 16 years and had one of the first NHL sites on the internet, predating NHL.com and all other major news outlets. I've taken a break from the hockey writing this season to focus on writing mystery novels, which is why I'm also drawn to conspiracy research. As for the Oilers, the biggest mistake they've made recently was believing their 2006 squad was good simply because they fluked their way to Game Seven of the Finals. Having Chris Pronger quit on them certainly didn't help, either. But it wasn't Pronger's fault that they signed Shawn Horcoff to such a ridiculous contract. I'm afraid it may be a while before the Oil are competitive again. And, Bob, you must be loving Steve Stamkos, no? It's nice to see the kid having such a swell season after all the garbage he took last year. And I'm from Pittsburgh, so I am of course familiar with Badger Bob Johnson. It truly is a great day for hockey. And your boy Ruslan Fedotenko played a big role in my Penguins winning the Cup last season...

[kenmurray]

Michael, since your from Pittsburgh, I hope your a Steelers fan as well.