Clint Hill!

[kenmurray]

More lies, more propaganda from these two assholes promoting Blaine's book with who else, Chris Mathews: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmcbRdd-DkI&NR=1

[Barney]

Of the 25-30 White House Sec. Service agents on travel status with Pres. Kennedy in his tour of the South, Florida,and Texas in Nov. 1963, a great many went off duty on 11-21-1963 and went out on the town, going from bar tobar and winding up in a Ft. Worth bar named THE CELLAR, which stayed open longer than usual for these guys.Jack Ruby was a friend of the owner and when he learned the agents whereabouts and their drinking spree, hesent some of his strippers and wait staff over to take care of these guys off duty. Meanwhile two Ft Worthfiremen were guarding the suite in the Texas Hotel of Pres. Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy, no policemen nor anysecret service agents present, incld. Clint Hill, who partied down with the rest of the gang, who were busyslugging down Everclear, a bottled but not aged form of grain alcohol I am told, never had any myself.

[Phil Dragoo]

Horne pointed out the Secret Service Protective Research Section destroyed its records for 1963 from the April 23 announcement by Johnson that Kennedy would attend a luncheon in Dallas later that year.We've seen Emory Roberts call off the agents at Love Field from the back of the limo; we know it was he who told the agents not to move after shots were fired.We've seen Greer brake for snipers—his bumper sticker: “I BRAKE FOR SNIPERS.”How Kellerman “went with Johnson” at Parkland. (“He's dead, Jim.”)We know Elmer Moore kept Perry up all Friday night badgering him to change his description of the throat wound as one of entry—that it was Moore who said Kennedy was “a traitor.”All of this and more.And commenting on it got an email from Dunkel's Donuts to read the crapola Secret Service Agents Break Wind.I vastly prefer Vince Palamara on the subject as outlined in Jim DiEugenio's Part 10 Bugliosi Review:Bugliosi’s next chapter deals with the Secret Service. Again, I can hardly recall any notable book saying that the Secret Service was the main plotter in the JFK case. The only one I can think of is the 1974 self-published effort entitled Murder from Within. It is a book that few people even know about, let alone use. Bugliosi seems to understand this, as he did not with the FBI. So he writes that “One other U.S. intelligence agency has had the suggestion of complicity in the assassination leveled against it by the conspiracy theorists, the Secret Service, but nowhere near as much as the CIA and FBI.” (p. 1239, italics added) But in his continual efforts to have it both ways, he later changes this to the Secret Service being behind the assassination. (p. 1241) Why does he do this, when in fact, there is virtually no one who says this? Probably so he can land another of his straw man broadsides: “... the notion that the Secret Service was behind the assassination is, like virtually all the conspiracy theories, ridiculous on its face.” (p. 1241) Yep, especially when virtually no one is saying it.Now what does Bugliosi do with his two classifications of the Secret Service as being both “complicit” and/or “being behind” the assassination? As is his usual bent, he severely limits the discussion of both. How does he do that? Consider the following: “With respect to the Secret Service, for all intents and purposes, the inquiry about complicity in the assassination begins and ends with the motorcade route.” (ibid) This is a shocking statement. Even for someone as agenda-driven as this author is. Let me drop just one name to show how Bugliosi’s self-imposed limits are nothing but solipsistic: Abraham Bolden. Secret Service agent Bolden has described an assassination plot on Kennedy in Chicago in early November that is very similar in design to what happened in Dallas. But as I demonstrated in Part 3 of this series, since Bugliosi does all he can to curtail any discussion of the plot to kill Kennedy in Chicago, he can ignore that vitally important episode.Let me drop another name to show how solipsistic Bugliosi’s take on the subject of the Secret Service is: Elmer Moore. As I wrote in Part 4 of this series, Moore has become one of the most important discoveries of the ARRB. As Pat Speer, Doug Horne, Gary Aguilar, and myself have noted, it is not unjustified to say that Moore was one of the most important players in the cover-up. The Secret Service agent eventually became a personal valet to Earl Warren. Again, Bugliosi does not have to deal with the very important figure of Moore. Why? For the simple reason that he does not mention him in the nearly 2,700 pages of his book.Surprisingly, the author glosses over the name of Pat Kirkwood in this chapter. Kirkwood ran an after-hours club called The Cellar located in Fort Worth. Within days of the assassination, it became fairly well known that Secret Service agents had been at the Fort Worth club well into the early hours of the morning. Drew Pearson mentioned it this way, “Obviously, men who have been drinking until nearly 3 AM are in no condition to be trigger-alert or in the best physical shape to protect anyone.” (Jim Marrs, Crossfire, p. 246) As Marrs notes, this was a clear violation of the Secret Service rules and regulations as expressed in their manual. But James Rowley decided not to discipline any of the agents involved, even though four of them rode on the car behind the presidential limousine. Why? Because if he did, it “might have given rise to an inference that the violation of the regulation had contributed to the tragic events of November 22.” (ibid, p. 247) Which some people have said was the case. Both Ken O’Donnell and Ralph Yarborough noted the slow reaction time by the Secret Service to the fusillade.Pat Kirkwood later elucidated what had happened. At about midnight the evening before the murder, some reporters called him and said they were out with about 17 Secret Service agents. They asked him if they could bring the agents over. According to Kirkwood, they were still there at 3:30 AM, joking about how local firemen had to replace them in guarding the president at the Fort Worth hotel. After the episode got in the papers, the White House called and told Kirkwood not to talk to anyone because the Secret Service had taken a beating in the press already. So Kirkwood and his manager didn’t say anything for years. But later manager Jim Hill said that the agents were clearly drunk since they were drinking nothing but alcohol. (ibid, p. 248) It’s incredible that Bugliosi deals with all this in one paragraph. In fact, I have told you more about what actually happened than he does. Further, the man, who has all kinds of boilerplate condemnation of the critical community, does not condemn this unprofessional and irresponsible behavior. Which actually borders on negligence.The man who has done the best work on the Secret Service failure in Dealey Plaza is Vince Palamara. Bugliosi mentions his book called Survivor’s Guilt and briefly discusses it. (See p. 1243) What the author leaves out from Palamara is rather interesting. Thankfully, Doug Horne put it in Vol. 5 of his series Inside the ARRB.As Horne notes, in the original security design, there was included motorcycle escorts traveling to the side of the limo. At a meeting on November 21st, Secret Service agent Winston Lawson did two things: he cut the number of guarding escort motorcycles in half—from four to two—and he then placed them to the rear of the car, not to the side. (Horne, p. 1402) Further, Horne notes that Lawson then lied about this by saying that it was Kennedy who wanted the motorcycles to the rear. (ibid, p. 1403) Palamara has also proven that it was standard practice to have motorcycles ride to the side of the limousine. Therefore, what happened in Dallas appears to be a deliberate anomaly. (ibid) As Horne writes, “If motorcycle patrolmen had been riding abreast of the limousine on Elm Street, their positioning may have obscured the President from shooters firing in front of the limousine.” (Horne, p. 1404)This weird formation of the motorcycles is backed up by B. J. Martin, one of the cyclists. He said he was given instructions at Love Field to ride to the rear of the limousine. He said he had never heard of such a formation. (ibid, p. 1404) The HSCA investigated these charges and found them soundly based. They called the formation around the president, “uniquely insecure.” (ibid, p. 1405) In addition, Palamara found out that Floyd Boring had told Clint Hill that JFK did not want agents riding on the rear steps of the presidential limousine in Dallas. (ibid, p. 1406) As Horne writes, this assignment of agents may have obscured the aim of an assassin firing from the rear of the car. Again, the failure to do this was falsely attributed to President Kennedy. (ibid, p. 1409) Even though Bugliosi has read Palamara, there is not a word about any of this in Reclaiming History.Just like there is not a mention of the name of Henry Rybka. Rybka is a Secret Service agent who has become famous due to a YouTube film clip. This film was shot by local television in black and white. It depicts both the presidential limo and the follow up car leaving Love Field. Agent Henry Rybka is running along the rear fender of the presidential limo as the car pulls out of the airport. As Rybka is doing this, agent Emory Roberts calls him back away from the car. Rybka is surprised by the Roberts order. He turns, shrugs his shoulders, and stretches out his arms—three times. Rybka apparently thought he was going to be on the rear steps of the limo. That is, obstructing any shots from the rear of the car. Apparently, he can’t believe he is being called off.Palamara calls what happened in Dallas—the altering of the motorcycle formation and cutting it in half, and the removal of agents from standing on the rear of the car—“security stripping”. This clearly resulted in the assassins having a much better opportunity to hit their target than if the proper procedures had been followed. No surprise, Bugliosi apparently did not think any of this was important in discussing Secret Service complicity in the assassination.. . . . .If you read Abraham Bolden's review of this Blaine crap, he calls it cya. Bolden has character; Palamara has integrity; DiEugenio hews to sources—Dunkel hearts Warren. And Posner. And Bugliosi. And Blaine.The Secret Service stole the body—the best evidence. Controlled the totally bogus autopsy and its bogus x-rays and bogus photos—and we know from Dan Marvin what really happened to Pitzer. And what Springer told Jeremy Gunn—that if you object, you “don't last very long.”If there was nothing to the throat wound, why did Elmer Moore—and Allen Dulles, and Arlen Specter, and J. Lee Rankin gang up on Malcolm Perry.If the Secret Service was there to protect the president, why did it serve to present the president for assassination, then take charge of the cover up.And now write this lying sack of crap book claiming the president commited suicide by ordering the agents off his limo.Uh, no. That was Emory Roberts, and the other Secret Service officers in charge.It's a chapter dark with cowardly betrayal—and right there in the cheerleader section is Dunkel, waving pom poms.Slow down in the killing zone, with no motorcycles flanking, no Secret Service on the rear or in the center of the front seat—wait for the head shot before hitting the gas. Then steal the body, clean the limo, control the autopsy, spoon feed the Warren Commission, and periodically publish propaganda accusing the president of causing his own murder.It's not a government worth saving. There is not one man of honor in power who will demand an accounting.It would be a deathwish akin to calling for an end to the Federal Reserve or the CIA.We've seen the consequences. It would take a massive rising. Hence the imperative to maintain the junk train from Heroinistan.

[tom jeffers]

nice job phil!

[Barney]

Based upon Secret Service manual violations for protective services for Pres. Kennedy and the First Lady, everymember of the detail to Dallas on 11-22-1963, should have been written up, reprimanded, transferred, or in someinstances, even terminated and "notation to never re-hire on their personnel files."Had they done their jobs, as professional protective service agents, the Pres. possibly could have been savedon that trip. However, the Pres. had the authority to demand that the BubbleTop on the Limo be put into use.During the month of Nov. 1963, the Secret Services recd. over 400 threats against the life of JFK. Whatmore,notice of potential threats is necessary to wake up this protective service than that. I think the service shouldbe incorporated into the Justice Dept. not the Treasury Dept. esp. for those agents on White House protective dutyespecially.

[Barney]

Rather than being complicit so much in the JFK conspiracy, I think the agency was incompetent in their training after recruitment, had bad working and attitude habits as evidence by the first African American White House agent, Abe Bolden. Most, if not all SS agents wentout on the town, on 11/21/1963, the night before the Ft. Worth morning breakfast speech, and the Dallas motorcade at noon, thus, theywere mentally dulled and physically impaired to react to a sudden motorcade emergency, even Agent Clint Hill.

[Dealey Joe]

Barney I tend to agree with you that there actions were not those of complicity.Who knows what transpired in Houston. The party could have started there?A few well placed drinks and a bevy of hookers could go a long way.These guys most likely felt invincible.Also the people in the Limo I can't see as being willing to intentionally drive into a hail of bullets?what kind of an idiot would that take.But if you have people that will unquestionably do as they are told who knows?

[Kit Carp]

Interestingly, Blaine's new book with the forward by Clint Hill has Clint describing the most detailed description yet of Kennedy's head wound, which he describes as a "fist sized wound in the rear of his head".This of course agrees with the huge wound of exit seen by 40 odd other witnesses, and makes the extant autopsy photos in the National Archives of the intact rear of JFK's head completely unexplainable.It's like Humes always said, JFK was hit from the rear, and the bullet exited to the rear. This, of course, means two bullets.Amazingly, Blaine's book ALSO credit's Admiral Burkley with witnessing a large gaping wound on the rear of JFK's head! This is news to me. Anyone know where this might have been pulled from? The Warren Commission went to great lengths to ignore Admiral Burkley and any pertinent testimony he could offer. They even erased his signature out of documents in the evidence section of the published 26 volumes. After all, he was only the President's official physican, the highest ranking military guy at the scene, present in the motorcade, present at Parkland Hospital, and present throughout the autopsy at Bethesda.Why bother to ask him to testify? Anyway. Two interesting points in the book. Apparently Clint Hill did not wish to hop aboard the WC train and move the wounds to please his bosses. Good for him for sticking to the truth.

[Kit Carp]

On page two of this thread, Tom Jeffers offers a link to an apparently British book review of this new Secret Service book. In the BOOK REVIEW, Clint is quoted as follows-"‘When I got to the presidential vehicle, just as I approached it, a third shot rang out, hitting the president in the head, just above the right ear and left a hole about the size of my palm."I was in the bookstore two days ago, reading the pertinent information as Hill clambered upon the car, and looked at the President's head.In the ACTUAL BOOK, Clint specfically claims there was a "FIST SIZED HOLE" in the "REAR of the President's head."I invite others to go to your local store, and read the truth, and consider what this means. It is hard to believe, and wildly propagandistic that a book reviewer would change the entire placement of the exit wound, but, there it is in black and white. I assume this Clint Hill "quote" actually originated at another source, and that this above "quote" is PIECES of a longer quote, and wasnt just made up out of clouds from cuckoo-land. If you carefully read the reviewers quote, it SEEMS to suggest that the "hole about the size of my palm" was located "above the right ear" on a casual read. However, if you really study what is says...it actually says the bullet STRUCK Kennedy above the right ear...but does NOT say WHERE it exited from. Only that the exit wound was "about the size of my palm". It's insidious, the way the quote is designed to mislead by being an incomplete description. In the book, it is not at all unclear. FIST SIZED WOUND ON THE REAR OF HIS HEAD, is pretty damn exact, eh? I wonder why the reviewer left out what is actually written in the book?

[Phil Dragoo]

KENNEDY DETAIL INFORMATION: THE TRUTH (JFK SECRET SERVICE PRESIDENT KENNEDY)HILL: Well, after this, when the third shot hit, this is right about now, I was just about to get onto the car and I slipped and then I regained my step and then I got up in the car and Mrs. Kennedy at that time was coming out on the trunk. She was coming out on the trunk to try to retrieve something that came off the President’s head went out to the right rear. She did not know I was there. When I got up on the trunk, I pushed her as best I could back into the rear seat. When I did that, the President fell down into her lap, with the right side of his head up exposed. I see that his eyes were fixed and there was a large hole above the right ear, just to the rear above the right ear about the size of my palm. The skull – that part of the skull was missing and there was brain matter – it looked like somebody had taken an ice cream scoop and gone in there and just removed a whole portion of the brain and thrown it around the back of the car. The back of the car and she were covered in blood and brain. And we – I turned and gave a thumbs down to the follow up car to let them know that for all intents and purposes, what had happened, and the driver accelerated, we went past the lead car, we screamed at them to get us to a hospital, we didn’t know where the hospital was. They got in front of us and took us to Parkland and we got to Parkland and we had a problem of getting people out of the car. I didn’t realize at first that Connally had been shot. He lifted up at one point while we were still moving, I noticed the front of his shirt was all covered in blood so I knew he had been shot. When we got to Parkland, they had been notified but there were no gurneys there, one of the agents ran in and a guy was in the process of coming out, he got to gurneys out there and then we had the problem of moving Governor Connally out of the car first because he was sitting in the jump seat immediately in front of the President. We couldn’t move the President or first lady without getting the people out of the jump seats. So we got Governor Conley on to a gurney, Mrs. Connally followed, threw the jump seats forward, and then we had the problem of getting the President out. Well, Mrs. Kennedy didn’t want to let go of the body. And I recognized that she was probably trying to shield him from the people seeing what his appearance was which was pretty gross so I took my jacket off and threw it over his head and the top of his torso. When I did that, she released him and we picked him up, put him on a gurney and raced into the hospital. The agents followed. http://vincepalamara.blogspot.com/The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head...http://www.jfklancer.com/CHill.htmlBut when talking to Arlen:As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying in the seat. The time of the shooting was approximately 12:30 p.m., Dallas time. I looked forward to the jump seats and noticed Governor Connally's chest was covered with blood and he was slumped to his left and partially covered up by his wife. I had not realized until this point that the Governor had been shot.So here he's stating it three ways: above the ear, right rear portion of his head, right rear side was missing.Gee, d'ya think he's been talked to.Considering the badgering Emory Roberts did to Perry, and his calling JFK a traitor.Remember what Stringer told Gunn, “If you object, you don't last long.”