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Robert Wagner wrote: You have no evidence of who did it. All you have are claims Major Media tried to fool us and Jews can't be trusted. You're not going to figure this out without evidence. One set of black boxes was recovered from the Pentagon. We can't trust the data because they (the Establishment) got possession first.So, mysteriously, no black boxes were recovered from the WTC? Oh, and I have presented a LOT of evidence regarding Israeli involvement in 9/11. You just saying that I didn't doesn't make it so. Also, I NEVER said that "Jews can't be trusted." You're putting words in my mouth. In other words, you're creating a straw-man there. It also looks like you're trying to make me look like a racist or anti-Semite or something. Are you sure you're not Jewish? LOL You really seem to be taking the whole Israeli thing personally. Robert Wagner wrote:The transponder on UAL175 was never turned off, it was switched to a different ID. One flight controller, Dave Bottiglia, followed it from point of hijack until it hit WTC 2. There was no opportunity to switch planes. Here's Dave saying so:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1doqa ... alies_news Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote: Okay, is there any way that the signal that the air traffic controllers were receiving was from a different aircraft and that they were assuming it was from the same craft as before because of it's position? Is there any possibility that there could have been a switch done like that to fool air traffic controllers? No, because Dave Bottiglia would have seen another plane approaching UAL175's flight path. Also, there's the question of how they moved passenger bodies to another plane. I'm going to look into whether Dave Bottiglia would have seen another plane approaching UAL 175's path. Basically, I'm going to look into it. ;D I'm not convinced. Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I'm sorry, but Boeing 767s cannot fly 500+ mph anywhere close to sea level in level flight, like the videos show them doing. The air is too thick. Ok, disregard major media videos and radar, consider only videos taken by private citizens, which show a plane hitting WTC 2 at 600 mph. If only we COULD trust those videos taken by "private citizens." It appears that the ones showing planes hitting the towers were faked too. For the rest of you, take a look at the other topic I started on fake planes and the media hoax on 9/11. Here is an example of what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfacCQj_ ... dzNIRobert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Well, unfortunately, there seem to be Israeli or Zionist entities at almost every turn regarding 9/11. There's Larry Silverstein, Jewish Zionist and very connected to Israel, there's the Israei shipping company, ZIM, that moved out abruptly before the 9/11 attacks, costing them something like $50,000 in broken lease fees, Companies abandon office leases all the time. The Atlantic Bank of New York moved out of WTC in July, while continuing to pay the remainder of its lease on vacant space. Its CEO and CFO are named Ficarola and Ciampa. Proof positive Italians had foreknowledge! That's funny. It would almost be believable if there were "dancing Italians" instead of "dancing Israelis" being detained by the FBI for two months. It would almost also be believable if Larry Silverstein was Italian, or if Odigo, the instant messenger service was Italian instead of Israeli. It might also be a little more believable that Italians were behind 9/11 if Italians dominated the media or if the American Al Qaeda guy, Adam Gadahn was Italian instead of being Jewish. See what I mean? Understating the evidence I present won't get you very far. Robert Wagner wrote:What about those supposedly French movie makers who just happened to have cameras pointed at WTC 1 when the cruise missile hit? Coincidence? Yeah, right. Need I point out the Dreyfus Affair, in which a French Jew was (wrongly) convicted of treason? If he wasn't guilty of that treason, he was probably guilty of another. Has anyone looked into the ethnicity of the movie makers? Here it is:"Naudet brothers are rather mysterious. They would seem to be Jewish - certainly, Gédéon would seem to be a Jewish name. I wonder whether they are really French, as we have been told, or whether they are perhaps Israelis posing as Frenchmen. Although we are told that they are French, we are never told anything about their background in France. Biographical information is virtually non-existent, even on a French 9-11 website (http://www.onze-septembre.com). The only reported facts are that they 1) moved from Paris to New York in 1989 (when Jules and Gédéon would have been aged 16 and 19 respectively) and 2) graduated from the (NYU) Tisch School of the Arts film school in 1995. I am curious about their move from Paris to New York (did they go with or without their parents?) and when and how they came to study at the Tisch school, which is one of the most competitive such institutions in the world. Entry is, reportedly, more competitive than to any of the Ivy League universities. So who arranged it?Could it be that their entire purpose in pursuing film studies in the U.S. (if indeed they really ever attended the Tisch school) and in making Hope, Gloves, and Redemption was to establish their credentials as film makers in time for 9-11? And that having made and publicized 9-11, they have now discarded their phony identities? In short, could the Naudet brothers and their celebrated documentary have been just another Ziohoax? This webpage here casts doubt on whether they are even brothers - a question I now consider perfectly reasonable to ask."http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=503_1258736317There you have it -- Tisch school education paid by Mossad, Ziohoax, phony identities. more Jewish spies.I never said that those men were Israeli or Jewish, but I DO think that their video showing both WTC plane strikes has CLEAR evidence of fakery. As for whether they are Israeli or Jewish or not, I don't know. Based on analysis done of their videos, they look fake to me. Here is a very good analysis of what I'm talking about. The entire video link is worth watching, but the makers of this documentary, September Clues, examine the Naudet brothers' video in this clip as well starting at about 3 min. and 20 sec. into this documentary clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3lPxadzNIHere is more analysis of the supposed 9/11 footage.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfacCQj_mlI

Please read this article which shows the enormous influence that Israel has on the United States...http://mycatbirdseat.com/2010/12/mohame ... more-time/

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:You're not going to figure this out without evidence. So, mysteriously, no black boxes were recovered from the WTC? Oh, and I have presented a LOT of evidence regarding Israeli involvement in 9/11. You just saying that I didn't doesn't make it so. Also, I NEVER said that "Jews can't be trusted." You're putting words in my mouth. In other words, you're creating a straw-man there. It also looks like you're trying to make me look like a racist or anti-Semite or something. Are you sure you're not Jewish? LOL You really seem to be taking the whole Israeli thing personally. Black boxes were found in the WTC, but they were smashed. I saw a picture of one. It's not mysterious considering thousands of tons of building fell on them. The only evidence you've presented -- Odigo and dancing Israelis -- showed foreknowledge. You are using the word involvement ambiguously, hoping people will take it to mean participation. Your spokesman, David Duke, said Zionists can't be trusted. I've been called a Jew basher in another forum, because I defended Nazis on something and criticized one Jewish individual on another. To some people, any criticism of a Jew or praise of Germany makes one anti-semitic. I don't have a special love for Jews. I'm offended by your premature conclusion the Jews did it, based on no evidence related to 911. Foreknowledge isn't a crime. We need to figure out how it was done before assigning blame. The crime scene is cold. If you have no evidence after nine years, it's unlikely you'll find any unless someone talks. In that connection, check this video about suspicious deaths of witnesses days before they were to testify. My favorite was Marvin Bush's housekeeper, who was run over by her own driverless car in Bush's driveway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1"The police report refers to Marvin Bush's occupation as "sales." In fact, Marvin Bush served on the board of Securacom (renamed Stratesec). Just a few weeks prior to Champagne's death, Securacom (which provided security for Dulles International Airport and the World Trade Center on 9-11) filed for bankruptcy. Bush also served on the board of HCC Insurance Holdings, inc. (formerly Houston Casualty Company), one of the re-insurers for the World Trade Center. Marvin Bush is also a co-founder of Winston Partners Group, a financial investment firm, along with A. Scott Andrews, a former chief financial officer (until 1994) for Worldcom. Bush had also served on the board of Fresh Del Monte Produce, Inc., a Palestinian-owned firm with headquarters in the Cayman Islands and a U.S. office in Coral Gables, Florida. In 2002, Bush left the board after it became the subject of a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation. On October 14, Eric Miller, a Harvard Law School graduate and the Assistant Chief of Litigation for the SEC from 1999 to May 2005, was beaten to death on September 7, 2005 in the Alexandria Motel on Route 1, just around the corner from the Marvin Bush residence. Miller, an African American, was reported to have fallen on bad times and taken up with two white crack users."http://interactive.zogby.com/fuse/messa ... 95Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I'm going to look into whether Dave Bottiglia would have seen another plane approaching UAL 175's path. Basically, I'm going to look into it. ;D I'm not convinced. The radar display is a composite of traditional radar that detects physical objects and another system that processes airplane ID from a squawk box (transponder). A plane not sending ID shows as an unidentified blip. To switch planes, they would have to put one on top of the other (at different altitudes), then turn one transponder off and the other on. Someone watching UAL175 would have seen the merging and a sudden change in altitude. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:If only we COULD trust those videos taken by "private citizens." It appears that the ones showing planes hitting the towers were faked too. For the rest of you, take a look at the other topic I started on fake planes and the media hoax on 9/11. Maybe everything in life is an illusion, you are the only real person. It's called solipsism. For the rest of us, common sense says 34 amateur videos weren't all fake. The video proving them fake showed only two or three of them. Robert Wagner wrote:"Naudet brothers are rather mysterious. They would seem to be Jewish - certainly, Gédéon would seem to be a Jewish name. I wonder whether they are really French, as we have been told, or whether they are perhaps Israelis posing as Frenchmen. Although we are told that they are French, we are never told anything about their background in France. Biographical information is virtually non-existent, even on a French 9-11 website (http://www.onze-septembre.com). The only reported facts are that they 1) moved from Paris to New York in 1989 (when Jules and Gédéon would have been aged 16 and 19 respectively) and 2) graduated from the (NYU) Tisch School of the Arts film school in 1995. I am curious about their move from Paris to New York (did they go with or without their parents?) and when and how they came to study at the Tisch school, which is one of the most competitive such institutions in the world. Entry is, reportedly, more competitive than to any of the Ivy League universities. So who arranged it? I posted this so you'd see how ridiculous paranoia sounds. You didn't get it. The author has them lying about their nationality, family name and funding source based on absolutely nothing. Nutcase rhetoric like this is not helpful. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Here is a very good analysis of what I'm talking about. The entire video link is worth watching, but the makers of this documentary, September Clues, examine the Naudet brothers' video in this clip as well starting at about 3 min. and 20 sec. into this documentary clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3lPxadzNI You accuse the media of video fakery, then cite a video that's nothing but hand crafted video effects. Instead of telling us what didn't happen, try figuring out what did happen.

Robert Wagner wrote:Black boxes were found in the WTC, but they were smashed. I saw a picture of one. It's not mysterious considering thousands of tons of building fell on them. Well, it's surprising to me that those black boxes were "smashed" as they are designed to withstand airplane crashes. How convenient for the perpetrators, wouldn't you say? LOL Robert Wagner wrote:The only evidence you've presented -- Odigo and dancing Israelis -- showed foreknowledge. You are using the word involvement ambiguously, hoping people will take it to mean participation. Odigo (the Israeli instant messenger service) and the "dancing Israelis" is NOT the only information I presented regarding foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. There is also the Israeli shipping company called Zim that moved out of the WTC days before and in such a hurry that they paid about $50,000 in broken lease fees. This is just evidence of Israeli entities having foreknowledge. You're neglecting the other information I presented regarding Israeli involvement in 9/11. I am also NOT trying to confuse people into thinking that foreknowledge means the same thing as involvement. It looks like YOU are trying to confuse people as to my intentions. I would think that certain entities having foreknowledge of 9/11 make them look very suspicious, and lots of people agree with me. You surprise me. This is one of the reasons why I question your agenda here. If at least three different Israeli-linked entities have mysterious foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, you don't see anything strange in that? Someone or some company having the appearance of having foreknowledge of a crime like 9/11 is a very strong clue as to where to look for more information. You just seem to minimize it. As luck would have it, there is a LOT more information than just Odigo, the "dancing Israelis," and Zim. There is much more information linking Israel to 9/11. I've presented it here, and I continue to present evidence. It seems that you are misleading people about this fact. For the rest of you reading this, just look at the first few pages of this topic to see what I mean. Robert Wagner wrote:Your spokesman, David Duke, said Zionists can't be trusted. Now you're saying that David Duke is my spokesman? LOL He's just one voice. There are a lot more people other than David Duke who are saying the same thing. After THIS statement you just made, I COULD use your own logic against you. You previously said that I said that JEWS can't be trusted. I pointed out that you made a false statement and that I never said that Jewish people can't be trusted. You just said that. It seems that you are trying to confuse people as to my intentions. Pulling out the "race" or "racist" card is very inflammatory, and you know. It won't work. First you said that David Duke said that "Jews can't be trusted" or something like that. Now you quote him as saying Zionists can't be trusted. Are you confusing, or trying to confuse, readers here regarding the difference between a Jew and a Zionist? They are not the same, and you know it. I am also sure that there are Zionists out there who are very charming and nice people. David Duke is talking about not trusting the ones he's referring to and not all of them in general. So, it seems you're misrepresenting what he saying too. He's referring to Zionists who are working AGAINST the U.S. (Bob Fox posted an article about the Israeli issue that you ignored so far.) Robert Wagner wrote:I've been called a Jew basher in another forum, because I defended Nazis on something and criticized one Jewish individual on another. To some people, any criticism of a Jew or praise of Germany makes one anti-semitic. I don't have a special love for Jews. I'm offended by your premature conclusion the Jews did it, based on no evidence related to 911. Foreknowledge isn't a crime. We need to figure out how it was done before assigning blame. Again, you're misrepresenting the information I have presented. I have given much more information other than just some Israeli entities having foreknowledge. For the rest of you, please see the first couple of pages of this topic to see what I mean. Robert Wagner is misrepresenting what I'm saying. Regarding you being called a "Jew basher" on "another forum," I don't care. If you know how it felt, why do it to me? Robert Wagner wrote:The crime scene is cold. If you have no evidence after nine years, it's unlikely you'll find any unless someone talks. In that connection, check this video about suspicious deaths of witnesses days before they were to testify. My favorite was Marvin Bush's housekeeper, who was run over by her own driverless car in Bush's driveway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1"The police report refers to Marvin Bush's occupation as "sales." In fact, Marvin Bush served on the board of Securacom (renamed Stratesec). Just a few weeks prior to Champagne's death, Securacom (which provided security for Dulles International Airport and the World Trade Center on 9-11) filed for bankruptcy. Bush also served on the board of HCC Insurance Holdings, inc. (formerly Houston Casualty Company), one of the re-insurers for the World Trade Center. Marvin Bush is also a co-founder of Winston Partners Group, a financial investment firm, along with A. Scott Andrews, a former chief financial officer (until 1994) for Worldcom. Bush had also served on the board of Fresh Del Monte Produce, Inc., a Palestinian-owned firm with headquarters in the Cayman Islands and a U.S. office in Coral Gables, Florida. In 2002, Bush left the board after it became the subject of a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation. On October 14, Eric Miller, a Harvard Law School graduate and the Assistant Chief of Litigation for the SEC from 1999 to May 2005, was beaten to death on September 7, 2005 in the Alexandria Motel on Route 1, just around the corner from the Marvin Bush residence. Miller, an African American, was reported to have fallen on bad times and taken up with two white crack users."http://interactive.zogby.com/fuse/messa ... adid=7495I agree that the crime scene is cold. The biggest obstacle I see is that the mainstream media won't touch any of this Israeli issue with a ten foot pole. In fact, most of the supposed 9/11 truth movements won't touch the Israeli issue with a ten foot pole either, it seems. Why is that? I've already said so. It's called "controlled opposition." Robert Wagner wrote:The radar display is a composite of traditional radar that detects physical objects and another system that processes airplane ID from a squawk box (transponder). A plane not sending ID shows as an unidentified blip. To switch planes, they would have to put one on top of the other (at different altitudes), then turn one transponder off and the other on. Someone watching UAL175 would have seen the merging and a sudden change in altitude. Okay, I'm still digesting this particular information. It still seems to me that some sort of switching could have been done. Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:If only we COULD trust those videos taken by "private citizens." It appears that the ones showing planes hitting the towers were faked too. For the rest of you, take a look at the other topic I started on fake planes and the media hoax on 9/11. Maybe everything in life is an illusion, you are the only real person. It's called solipsism. For the rest of us, common sense says 34 amateur videos weren't all fake. The video proving them fake showed only two or three of them. You're funny. How about you show me what videos weren't examined in the fake planes topic I started. I'm curious. Robert Wagner wrote:Robert Wagner wrote:"Naudet brothers are rather mysterious. They would seem to be Jewish - certainly, Gédéon would seem to be a Jewish name. I wonder whether they are really French, as we have been told, or whether they are perhaps Israelis posing as Frenchmen. Although we are told that they are French, we are never told anything about their background in France. Biographical information is virtually non-existent, even on a French 9-11 website (http://www.onze-septembre.com). The only reported facts are that they 1) moved from Paris to New York in 1989 (when Jules and Gédéon would have been aged 16 and 19 respectively) and 2) graduated from the (NYU) Tisch School of the Arts film school in 1995. I am curious about their move from Paris to New York (did they go with or without their parents?) and when and how they came to study at the Tisch school, which is one of the most competitive such institutions in the world. Entry is, reportedly, more competitive than to any of the Ivy League universities. So who arranged it? I posted this so you'd see how ridiculous paranoia sounds. You didn't get it. The author has them lying about their nationality, family name and funding source based on absolutely nothing. Nutcase rhetoric like this is not helpful. Okay, so I didn't get your example? I still don't know who those Naudet brothers are. I know that their video of both airplane hits on the WTC looks fake. Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Here is a very good analysis of what I'm talking about. The entire video link is worth watching, but the makers of this documentary, September Clues, examine the Naudet brothers' video in this clip as well starting at about 3 min. and 20 sec. into this documentary clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3lPxadzNI You accuse the media of video fakery, then cite a video that's nothing but hand crafted video effects. Instead of telling us what didn't happen, try figuring out what did happen."Hand crafted video effects?" What are you talking about? The link I provided shows an analysis of the fake airplane footage including the Naudet brothers' 9/11 footage. This is why I question your agenda here. Are you trying to say that the links I'm providing are just made up fakery? If you are, in my opinion, you are definitely a disinformation personality. For the rest of you reading this, here is the link I provided again. Take a good look at it because there is a lot more of it. The link is only part of the documentary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE3lPxadzNIAlso, as for your remark about me just "telling us what didn't happen," I noticed that you skillfully AVOIDED the article posted by Bob regarding Israeli influence on the United States. How very interesting indeed. Here's the link to the article that Bob posted on this topic yesterday.http://mycatbirdseat.com/2010/12/mohame ... -time/Here are some very interesting quotes about Israel from the article by the former Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mooer. “I’ve never seen a President — I don’t care who he is — stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. I got to the point where I wasn’t writing anything down. If the American people understood what a grip those people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don’t have any idea what goes on.” Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of StaffHere's another quote from the article:"Without America’s enormous military aid of the latest weapons, technology, and satellite spying; without America’s tax dollar grants to Israel of close to $2 Trillion; without America’s constant Vetoes in the United Nations of Security Council Resolutions simply condemning and urging Israel to comply with International and Humanitarian Law; without American Presidents and the subservient Congress support and protection of Israel’s wars and atrocities as “self defense”; without America’s media attacking, smearing, and ruining the lives of any American who dares speak out against Israel’s control of our foreign policy; and most importantly, without the American people’s ignorance, disinterest, disconnect, and apathy toward our governmental domestic and foreign policies—there would be no ISRAEL."Then there's this gem from the article."While Jewish Americans constitute <2% of the U.S. Population, a small minority of them have disproportionate ownership, presence and tentacles throughout the government (Senate alone has 13 Jewish Senators with not one African American senator), in Wall Street Banks and Financial Institutions, major media corporations, Hollywood, and Academia."This article is not written by David Duke, and it's also not "Jew bashing." The article is talking about Israel and Zionists and not Jews in general. Don't confuse the two (Israel/Zionists versus Jews] because it's misleading and deceptive for you to do that. For you to try and confuse people into thinking that Zionist means "Jew" or that talking bad about Israel is "Jew bashing" is misleading. It's just you trying to make me, and others like me, look bad, and you know it.

It seems that reports have come in tying Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, directly to Israeli intelligence and “Israel friendly” media outlets. It seems that Assange, while at a Geneva meeting, agreed to allow Israel to select or censor all Wikileak output.GORDON DUFF: BUSTED – WIKILEAKS WORKING FOR ISRAELhttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/08/gordon ... srael/From the article:"Reports have come in today, tying Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, directly to Israeli intelligence and “Israel friendly” media outlets. We are told Assange, while at a Geneva meeting, agreed to allow Israel to select or censor all Wikileak output."There's this too:"WikiLeaks 'struck a deal with Israel' over diplomatic cables leaksby LikiWeaks"Tuesday Dec 7th, 2010 6:39 PMhttp://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/12/07/18665978.phpFrom the article above:"Following the leak (and even before), Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a press conference that Israel had “worked in advance” to limit any damage from leaks, adding that “no classified Israeli material was exposed by WikiLeaks.” [6] In an interview with the Time magazine around the same time, Assange praised Netanyahu as a hero of transparency and openness! [7]"Here are footnotes 6 and 7 from the article above.[6] http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... 1.327773[7] http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... -2,00.html Also, take a look at this article. "WikiLeaks Being Used to Justify "Patriot Act" Legislation For Internet"http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/bre ... tml#moreIs this the agenda behind this whole Wikileaks circus show? Is it a hoax to justify legislation to control the internet too? Also, why is Assange linked to Israel? Why is he praising Netanyahu as a "hero?" Think about it.

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:It seems that reports have come in tying Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, directly to Israeli intelligence and “Israel friendly” media outlets. It seems that Assange, while at a Geneva meeting, agreed to allow Israel to select or censor all Wikileak output.GORDON DUFF: BUSTED – WIKILEAKS WORKING FOR ISRAELhttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/08/gordon ... israel/The best thing on the web page is Frank Scott's well written comment, which puts the affair in perspective. Hackers like Assange have three goals:1. Poke their finger in the establishment's eye. 2. Ego gratification -- show how smart they are.3. Adventure.WikiLeaks fulfills all three. I believe team members' complaints about Assange cutting private deals. He's doing it for ego and adventure, not for any political reason. His gunslinger mentality could be exploited by any politician or intelligence agency, including Israel. The 'feud' between Assange and hawk/neocom/Murdoch seems like the phony roleplaying kind seen in professional wrestling. I picture them having a beer after the show, reprising their antics. The article loses credibility with this paragraph:More importantly, Wikileaks has never had a document mentioning the 9/11 investigation, the controversy over the “9/12″ secret flight to Israel or the “dancing Israeli’s,” the 5 Mossad agents arrested on the George Washington bridge on 9/11 in a van with 2,000 pounds of explosives. This group, admittedly “documenting” the 9/11 attack for the Israeli government was kept in custody for 10 months and only released after diplomatic wrangling and a major lobbying effort.The Israeli truck was stopped in East Rutherford NJ, 14 miles from the GW Bridge, at 4:30PM. The truck on an approach to the GW Bridge was stopped at 11:30PM; it had nothing to do with the Israelis. Two, not five, of the dancing Israelis were Mossad agents. They were released after 71 days, not 10 months. The author could easily have gotten the facts right. It's hard to tell whether this is sloppy reportage or biased journalism.Is Assange being set up as a patsy? No, he will burn out quietly, like Drudge Report.Will they use Wikileaks an an excuse to censor the internet? No, it's impossible.Will the leak concept be co-opted to spread disinformation? Yes.

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Odigo (the Israeli instant messenger service) and the "dancing Israelis" is NOT the only information I presented regarding foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. There is also the Israeli shipping company called Zim that moved out of the WTC days before and in such a hurry that they paid about $50,000 in broken lease fees. Zim announced its intention to move out in April 2001, six months before 9/11/2001, and spent the next six months moving. It completed the move "days before." Six months is not "in such a hurry." Here's the beginning of the announcement:Zim-American Israeli ships itself out of NY; New headquarters in Va. will cut costs; move means layoffs.Crain's New York BusinessApril 9, 2001 p. 4by Alice LipowiczSeeking to lower its costs, Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co. is moving its North American headquarters to Norfolk, Va., from its longtime base at the World Trade Center in Manhattan. The move means a loss of at least 110 jobs. http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... 98Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I am also NOT trying to confuse people into thinking that foreknowledge means the same thing as involvement. It looks like YOU are trying to confuse people as to my intentions. I would think that certain entities having foreknowledge of 9/11 make them look very suspicious, and lots of people agree with me. I don't find it suspicious that Mossad had a mole inside Al Qaeda or ISI; I'd find it suspicious if they didn't. Spying on the enemy is their job. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:As luck would have it, there is a LOT more information than just Odigo, the "dancing Israelis," and Zim. There is much more information linking Israel to 9/11. I've presented it here, and I continue to present evidence. It seems that you are misleading people about this fact. For the rest of you reading this, just look at the first few pages of this topic to see what I mean. I reviewed the first pages of this thread again, in case I missed something the first time. They contained a LOT of irrelevant Zionist bashing (happy now?) The only thing relevant to 9/11 was an Israeli company running airport security. That article doesn't contribute to the discussion because there weren't any airport security violations on 9/11.In short, you provided two pieces of evidence showing Israeli foreknowledge. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Now you're saying that David Duke is my spokesman? LOL He's just one voice. There are a lot more people other than David Duke who are saying the same thing.Argumentum ad populum -- the greater the number of people who believe a proposition, the more likely it's true. According to that logic, Santa Claus did it. Think about it. If true, the 600 mph speed problem goes away. He was navigating for the chimney, which could only mean the elevator shaft in the center of the building. When does Christmas fall on the Hijri calendar? On the Hebrew calendar? We have only to find the matching calendar and we'll know who did it. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Regarding you being called a "Jew basher" on "another forum," I don't care. If you know how it felt, why do it to me? Because you keep telling us to watch Zionist bashing videos that have nothing to do with 9/11.Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Also, as for your remark about me just "telling us what didn't happen," I noticed that you skillfully AVOIDED the article posted by Bob regarding Israeli influence on the United States. How very interesting indeed. Bob's video is also irrelevant to 9/11. If you'd like. I could post videos villainizing Hitler, Stalin, Attila The Hun and Tamerlane. They would be just as irrelevant. Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Then there's this gem from the article."While Jewish Americans constitute <2% of the U.S. Population, a small minority of them have disproportionate ownership, presence and tentacles throughout the government (Senate alone has 13 Jewish Senators with not one African American senator), in Wall Street Banks and Financial Institutions, major media corporations, Hollywood, and Academia."Sounds to me like jealousy. Are you saying we should kill smart people to level the playing field? Pol Pot had the same idea.

Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:It seems that reports have come in tying Wikileaks founder, Julian Assange, directly to Israeli intelligence and “Israel friendly” media outlets. It seems that Assange, while at a Geneva meeting, agreed to allow Israel to select or censor all Wikileak output.GORDON DUFF: BUSTED – WIKILEAKS WORKING FOR ISRAELhttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/08/gordon ... israel/The best thing on the web page is Frank Scott's well written comment, which puts the affair in perspective. Hackers like Assange have three goals:1. Poke their finger in the establishment's eye. 2. Ego gratification -- show how smart they are.3. Adventure.WikiLeaks fulfills all three. I believe team members' complaints about Assange cutting private deals. He's doing it for ego and adventure, not for any political reason. His gunslinger mentality could be exploited by any politician or intelligence agency, including Israel. This analysis is almost exclusively your analysis. The fact remains that Israel and Wikileaks cooperated with each other. Strange, isn't it? It's particularly strange given that Israel is given U.S. taxpayer money and/or equipment. Robert Wagner wrote:The 'feud' between Assange and hawk/neocom/Murdoch seems like the phony roleplaying kind seen in professional wrestling. I picture them having a beer after the show, reprising their antics. I agree that it's role playing. Absolutely. Except that I'm including the Israelis in on this circus too. Just look at the information. Robert Wagner wrote:The article loses credibility with this paragraph:More importantly, Wikileaks has never had a document mentioning the 9/11 investigation, the controversy over the “9/12″ secret flight to Israel or the “dancing Israeli’s,” the 5 Mossad agents arrested on the George Washington bridge on 9/11 in a van with 2,000 pounds of explosives. This group, admittedly “documenting” the 9/11 attack for the Israeli government was kept in custody for 10 months and only released after diplomatic wrangling and a major lobbying effort.The Israeli truck was stopped in East Rutherford NJ, 14 miles from the GW Bridge, at 4:30PM. The truck on an approach to the GW Bridge was stopped at 11:30PM; it had nothing to do with the Israelis. Two, not five, of the dancing Israelis were Mossad agents. They were released after 71 days, not 10 months. LOL You're funny. So, you're actually admitting that only two of the "dancing Israelis" were Mossad agents! LOLSo, who were the others? Just buddies of theirs? Do you think that the OTHER Israelis who were with those two Mossad agents could have also been Mossad? Do you think they carry ID cards? That's like saying that Lee Oswald was NOT a CIA asset (who was mishandled and abused and set up, of course) and that only David Atlee Phillips was. Do you really think people who read this forum are that stupid? LMAO! Okay, so, only TWO of those "dancing Israelis" were Mossad, by your own admission. How funny! I think they ALL were. The owner of that moving company, I understand, fled to Israel when his employees were picked up by the FBI. Robert Wagner wrote:The author could easily have gotten the facts right. It's hard to tell whether this is sloppy reportage or biased journalism.Is Assange being set up as a patsy? No, he will burn out quietly, like Drudge Report.Will they use Wikileaks an an excuse to censor the internet? No, it's impossible.Will the leak concept be co-opted to spread disinformation? Yes.What I know, and what is fact, is that Israeli COOPERATED with Wikileaks. What I also know is that there is some talk that I've heard on the news about censoring the internet because of issues like Wikilinks. All they have to do is create a big enough boogieman, and they can justify gutting our constitution, you know, "warrentless wiretapping" after 9/11, etc. Interesting, eh?

Robert Wagner wrote: Zim announced its intention to move out in April 2001, six months before 9/11/2001, and spent the next six months moving. It completed the move "days before." Six months is not "in such a hurry." Here's the beginning of the announcement:Zim-American Israeli ships itself out of NY; New headquarters in Va. will cut costs; move means layoffs.Crain's New York BusinessApril 9, 2001 p. 4by Alice LipowiczSeeking to lower its costs, Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co. is moving its North American headquarters to Norfolk, Va., from its longtime base at the World Trade Center in Manhattan. The move means a loss of at least 110 jobs. http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... f=9&t=6098 Zim paid about $50,000 in broken lease fees. That's not moving out in a hurry? LOL Robert Wagner wrote: Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:I am also NOT trying to confuse people into thinking that foreknowledge means the same thing as involvement. It looks like YOU are trying to confuse people as to my intentions. I would think that certain entities having foreknowledge of 9/11 make them look very suspicious, and lots of people agree with me. I don't find it suspicious that Mossad had a mole inside Al Qaeda or ISI; I'd find it suspicious if they didn't. Spying on the enemy is their job. Got it. So, you're not disputing that they had foreknowledge. Why wouldn't they tell us? Where were the warnings? Also, you CHOOSE to see the evidence of Israeli foreknowledge as nothing abnormal. People like me find it highly suspicious. Thousands of people died because of those attacks. That's no big deal to you, right? If you think thousands of murdered people is just business as usual, that's on you. You can choose to live in your bubble and rationalize everything. Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:As luck would have it, there is a LOT more information than just Odigo, the "dancing Israelis," and Zim. There is much more information linking Israel to 9/11. I've presented it here, and I continue to present evidence. It seems that you are misleading people about this fact. For the rest of you reading this, just look at the first few pages of this topic to see what I mean. I reviewed the first pages of this thread again, in case I missed something the first time. They contained a LOT of irrelevant Zionist bashing (happy now?) The only thing relevant to 9/11 was an Israeli company running airport security. That article doesn't contribute to the discussion because there weren't any airport security violations on 9/11.Robert, I've said this to you before, and yet you continue. So I'll say it again.I have presented a lot of evidence and information linking Israel to 9/11 with Israeli-friendly entities within the U.S. cooperating with them. It is not just "Zionist bashing." Also, regarding your opinion of "airport security violations," you don't think letting almost two dozen men on planes with weapons is a major security violation? You can't be serious. It's such a gross violation of security that it looks intentional. Robert Wagner wrote:In short, you provided two pieces of evidence showing Israeli foreknowledge. In short, you are continuously misrepresenting the information. There are more than just "two pieces" of information.It's beginning to look like you're doing it on purpose. In short, you sound like a liar. Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Now you're saying that David Duke is my spokesman? LOL He's just one voice. There are a lot more people other than David Duke who are saying the same thing.Argumentum ad populum -- the greater the number of people who believe a proposition, the more likely it's true. Actually, the term in this instance is called a red herring. You introduced David Duke as my "spokesman."I advised you that he is not my "spokesman" because there are a lot of other sources and people that give the same information.You then change the subject with your "argumentum ad populum" nonsense. You changed the subject.Basically what happened is that you lied.I corrected you.You changed the subject.So, it looks like "argumentum" RED HERRING on your part. LOLRobert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Regarding you being called a "Jew basher" on "another forum," I don't care. If you know how it felt, why do it to me? Because you keep telling us to watch Zionist bashing videos that have nothing to do with 9/11.The information I've presented has nothing to do with 9/11? That's a false statement.It's also a false statement that those videos are "Zionist bashing." You haven't refuted ANYTHING in those videos. So, again, I say, if you know how it felt to be called a "Jew basher" on another forum, why do it to me here? Are you a hypocrite? Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Also, as for your remark about me just "telling us what didn't happen," I noticed that you skillfully AVOIDED the article posted by Bob regarding Israeli influence on the United States. How very interesting indeed. Bob's video is also irrelevant to 9/11. That's a false statement. It's very relevant as it points out who dominates the media and our government.You also have not refuted anything that is in that article that Bob posted. Interesting how you can just dismiss information as "irrelevant." Robert Wagner wrote:Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Then there's this gem from the article."While Jewish Americans constitute <2% of the U.S. Population, a small minority of them have disproportionate ownership, presence and tentacles throughout the government (Senate alone has 13 Jewish Senators with not one African American senator), in Wall Street Banks and Financial Institutions, major media corporations, Hollywood, and Academia."Sounds to me like jealousy. Are you saying we should kill smart people to level the playing field? Pol Pot had the same idea.Who said anything about killing anybody? Is that where your head is? Interesting.It's not jealousy at all. To think that Jewish Americans constitute LESS than 2% of the population and are so disproportionately represented in the Senate, media, and financial institutions actually says nothing about their intelligence and much more about how this situation was created. You sound racist by saying what you said. For example, by your racist logic, in America, before the civil rights movement, there were many more white people in positions of power versus people of color because white people were smarter and NOT because it was a rigged or FIXED game. It sounds like you are saying that. If the shoe fits, Mr. Wagner, wear it. This is YOUR logic here. You sound like a racist and/or a Jewish supremacist. I personally think they got into into those positions because of money and connections. You know, if the media is dominated by them, it's kind of easy to see how that same media machine might help them out too. When they dominate the media, financial institutions, and are disproportionately represented in our government, there's a definite fix...a rigged game. So, you see, it's not about intelligence. It's about dirty tricks and lies. It's about a rigged game. This is precisely why Bob's article is relevant to 9/11 and why the Wikilinks connection to Israel is also very relevant to 9/11, especially since there is a lot of evidence linking Israel to 9/11.For the rest of you reading this, we have proof that Wikilinks cooperated with Israel. We also have Wikilinks, the supposed fountain of leaked information basically saying NOTHING about 9/11. Interesting coincidence, eh?

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Robert Wagner wrote: Zim announced its intention to move out in April 2001, six months before 9/11/2001, and spent the next six months moving. It completed the move "days before." Six months is not "in such a hurry." Here's the beginning of the announcement:Zim-American Israeli ships itself out of NY; New headquarters in Va. will cut costs; move means layoffs.Crain's New York BusinessApril 9, 2001 p. 4by Alice LipowiczSeeking to lower its costs, Zim-American Israeli Shipping Co. is moving its North American headquarters to Norfolk, Va., from its longtime base at the World Trade Center in Manhattan. The move means a loss of at least 110 jobs. http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... f=9&t=6098 Zim paid about $50,000 in broken lease fees. That's not moving out in a hurry? LOL Zim's move is relatively insignificant, but it illustrates what's wrong with your methodology. You are so intent on proving the Jews did it that you're willing to ignore evidence that doesn't support your pet theory. You continue claiming Zim moved out "in a big hurry," proving foreknowledge, when the facts show them moving out six months before 9/11. This illustrates why an investigator should not start with a conclusion and look for evidence to support it -- because bias causes him to discard inconvenient evidence. This thread is no longer a productive search for answers.Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:Also, you CHOOSE to see the evidence of Israeli foreknowledge as nothing abnormal. People like me find it highly suspicious. Thousands of people died because of those attacks. That's no big deal to you, right? If you think thousands of murdered people is just business as usual, that's on you. You can choose to live in your bubble and rationalize everything. Where is your outrage over at least 919,967 people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since 9/11/2001? The idea that 303 Arabs are less important than 1 American is what provoked those 19 hijackers to get on the planes. Number of deaths was compiled using the lowest credible estimates. See:http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html