Zapruder

[Dealey Joe]

kenmurray wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvLW3IBH ... elatedWhat is your take on these Jack White videos showing the Zapruder film a total hoax?Does anyone know when this was put together? seems like I have seen parts of this before?I am not sure where to start. I wonder what Robert Groden thinks of this? seems like it proves all his past work wrong and I see he is helping White with this or at least gets honorable mention.taking Zapruders place in a reenactment.I did notice they still mention Badgman and another figure or two.Not sure if they still believe that or not?Looks like we have 9 shooters, 3 teams of three plus maybe Files and Badgeman.that would be a shooter about every 50 feet all around the Plaza unless they were all hidden in buildings. Of the three tramps two are french sharpshooters with the one in the front being the BEST SHOT in the world according to the Frenchman being interviewed.Lee Bowers saw ONLY two people in the train yard other than railroad employees, an older heavy guy and a younger one in a plaid jacket was over by the fence?2 hours before the shooting Mrs. Mercer saw two men in a pickup on Elm St.and ID'ed Jack Ruby as the driver and a younger guy in a plaid shirt unload a riffle in a case and head up the knoll.Ed Hoffman saw two men hand off a gun and head towards the train tower where Bowers was located.Holt had three men in the train yard somewhere..Hill and Moorman was said to be in the street. Do we have a picture of that?It is strange to me the Frenchman Jim Marrs interviewed who saw the ORIGINAL FILM that E. Howard Hunt got ahold of and took to France tells a story the way most CT'ers want to hear.The limo made too wide a turn as it rounded the corner.The first shot was at the top of the hill thru the windshield and into JFK;s throat of course for this to happen the shots were fired from underneath the underpass?.There were 8-9 shots fired.The footage coming round the corner was in the original filmThe crown on the left side toward the top of Elm did not move a muscle for 2 minutes.The film showed the Limo came to a complete stop while the two head shots were made. how they determined two, they do not say?Instead of going to all this trouble why didn't they just destroy the Zapruder Fikm? or did they just want to rub our noses in it?Do you have an opinion?since White starts this off with the Moorman polariod copy of her picture as being the sole proofof alteration, I would like to see a picture of Hill and Moorman with their camera, standing in the street?

[Bob]

I first started to believe the Zapruder film was a hoax because of the research of Jack White. There was still doubt though. Doug Horne has convinced me totally with his new book. If you still have questions about this matter, get the Horne book, or at least the volume that talks about the Zapruder film and how it was altered.In terms of Zapruder himself, again please see this...Abraham Zapruder, Clint Murchison (owner of the Dallas Cowboys at that time) , Mr. D.H. Byrd, (owner of the Texas School Book Depository and the founder of the LCAP), Sarah Hughes, who swore LBJ in as the 36th President while Air Force One was still on the ground in Dallas, George DeMohrenschildt, (CIA contract agent AND best friend of LHO), George Bu$h (also close friend of George DeMohrenschildt), Neil Mallon, (mentor that Bu$h named his son, Neil, after), H.L. Hunt, & Demitri Von Mohrenschildt (George D's brother).Zapruder also belonged to the Dallas Petroleum Club, whose membership also included Byrd, Bu$h, DeMohrenshildt and David Phillips. In 1953 and 1954 a woman named, Jeanne LeGon worked SIDE by SIDE with Abraham Zapruder at a high end clothing design firm called, Nardis of Dallas. Jeanne LeGon designed the clothing and Abraham Zapruder cut the patterns and the material for her.Incidentally, Abraham Zapruder's obituary mis-states the date/year that he departed Nardis of Dallas, incorrectly citing 1949. The correct year was 1959, [the same year that his "partner in design" Jeanne LeGon became known as, Jean LeGon DeMohrenschildt... She had married Lee Oswald's BEST FRIEND (to be), CIA Contract Agent, George DeMohrenschildt!Also consider this...And DO NOT forget that Zapruder gave his film to Time-Life. Time-Life kept this film under wraps for years so the American public could not view it. But WHO owned Time-Life then? Henry Luce. A Bonesman from 1920. Good friends of Prescott Bu$h, another Bonesman.

[Dealey Joe]

Well Bob my friend, no offense meant.but just what the hell do we believe?If part of the film is fake then it is all fake.I have no problem with it being fake, it gives us something else to argue about for the next 40+ yearsI have some of the Horne books but I just can't get into them.Why do you think he is an expert on the film?I want to see the proof, not hear about it.Something that important should be shown more than the Z film itself?How far are we going to go with White and now Marrs who in the past indicated he might believe Files?. are we going to say that James Files is also Fake?Judyth Baker fake, Chauncy Holt Fake, then that also makes Ed Haslam a fake?Zack Shelton, Tosh Plumlee, Wim Dankbar, on and on?Then we must agree that the nine Frenchmen murdered JFKand that E Howard Hunt took the film to France? or do we believe that partI have always thought someone fixed the head shot but that was simple to do.I could most likely do that job myself.Damm this makes me tired.I;m just having a bad day I guess

[Kirk]

Hey Joe,I believe the Z film is real, but has been altered. To many people in film stating they were in a slightly different place. Did Zapruder actually shoot the film? That is still kind of a question because other pictures seem to show him behind his co-worker. I think the mistake for the lone nut side or future Warren Commission side was that Zapruder allowed the film to be shown right after the event, and since then they have done all they could to discount it the evidence of more then one shooter. Why that was allowed to happen in the first place is a good question I think to ask.

[Dealey Joe]

Kirk I tend to agree for the simple reason that all the changing would serve no purpose I can think of.several of the things Jack White see;s I might be able to explain away?But if there is visable proof from a lab then I will stand corrected.missing frames does not make a forgery. and for the life of me I can''t see why anyone would go to the trouble??

[Kirk]

Joe,I think of most of the hard to explain, weird and troubling stuff on both sides have been created because of individual egos involved, and not being able to leave well enough alone. I the Z film was altered a couple of times under Time Life supervision, if we can believe that the CIA or powers that be would have intrusted Time Life with the original for so long, and if they did that could only mean that Luce owned Time Life was infact one of them and one of them to start. They won bidding for the rights and ownership with what looks like a lot of money, but would really be chicken feed, even at that time. I think he was created bidding war that didn't really exist. Zapruder was told who to give or sale it to. Those selected frames of the headshot,along with the backyard photos sowed the seeds of a lone nut to so many that it could not have happened by chance. My Grandparents subscription to Life for almost it's entire existence. They were the magazine at the time, as you know. KirkDealey Joe wrote:Kirk I tend to agree for the simple reason that all the changing would serve no purpose I can think of.several of the things Jack White see;s I might be able to explain away?But if there is visable proof from a lab then I will stand corrected.missing frames does not make a forgery. and for the life of me I can''t see why anyone would go to the trouble??

[kenmurray]

Hi quality footage of JFK Assassination:Once again, notice how sparse the crowd is where Mary Moorman and Jean Hill are standing. Coincidence?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q91RZko5Gw

[Dealey Joe]

Ken every picture i have shows the same people?Also i have been watching the Zapruder tonight I have it set up to click thru the frames andI do not see what Jack sees.The line of people he says do not move, are moving, not a lot but hands and legs are moving.the guy he calls stick man looks good to me, he is just moving very fast and the camera is moving.looks very normal to me.My dad always told me figures don't liebut sometimes liars figure.I am not calling Jack a liar but he uses so called statistics to prove what he wants to see.The things he uses to discredit the film just don't exist or are explainable thru a camera lens.I think there could have been some doctoring of the head but even that is just a possibility.I remain unconvinced.

[Phil Dragoo]

Doug Horne, Inside the Assassinations Record Review Board, Volume IV, devotes pages 1185-1377 to an examination of the Zapruder film.Please read this before asking rhetorical questions about the Zapruder film.The NPIC Event I and II involving Brugioni and McMahon are just one more definitive proof of alteration.Life's C.D. Jackson was Ike's psyops guy; Zapruder was a stoned insider of the Murchison-Byrd Bunch.Amoeba Man/Stick Man—oh, I see those guys all the time. . . .they run through George Noory's Coast to Coast being chased by gray aliens and shadow people.Thirty motionless spectators.A “wound” which looks like Bart Simpson blowing bubble gum.Hey, there's no alteration here—the Donut Man told us; who are you going to believe, Dunkel or your lying eyes.Joe, did you watch the six segments Ken linked to? 1998.And the Blink anomaly. Who else recalls that from the 1998 Assassination Science edited by Jim Fetzer.FoMoCo made flashers with a known timing—yet Zapruder can violate that timing repeatedly—but gee that's not alteration.Joe, do you listen to yourself? You keep asking why someone would alter Zapruder.I don't know, maybe to hide the shots not made by the designated patsy, Lee Oswald.Good catch, Bob: you nailed the “noble Citizen Zapruder”--give me a break—why did he not film the limo turn? Could it be because Something Happened.Jack White is killer. He established about fifteen reasons the backyard photos are hooey.The Eeevil Assassin All in Black Brandishing His Weapons and Those Commie Newspapers.Except Gil Jesus has ten reasons Oswald never ordered, received, stored, carried, or fired the alleged rifle. And Jerry shows us Roger saw the rifle morphed.And the Harper Fragment—oh wait—the Black Trapezoid. Who did not watch the six installments Ken posted. The black trapezoid used to cover the occipital blow out got loose and ran through the film.But hey; it's not altered. What would be the point.

[Dealey Joe]

well you all are more knowledgeable that I am.you use Whites and Hornes facts. Bob says it is altered and may well be.I am not saying it is not altered, I just can't find and evidence like flashing light ect.When you are looking at things thru the lens of a camera there are all kinds of distortions.frame timing, operator movements. It is not an exact science.I can find no picture anywhere of Hill and Moorman standing on the street.I am willing to be convinced by evidence not what someone thinks about this.without Moorman standing in the street Whites whole theory does not work.As far as the backyard photos all that is required there is a close visual inspection.LHO old them it was fake.White is the fellow who tried using LHO distorted pictures to prove LHO os in fact not LHO.Lee and Harvey crap. Talk about listening to me. Listen to WhitePhil I know I do over simplify things but that is my way.Sometimes things just don't need to be complicated.I cannot read any great amount of print so that is a problem but i use other less effective means of determining truth as I see it.Oh well enough!