The three tramps

[ChristophMessner]

AnthonyAthletic wrote: I have been loosely studying the JFK assassination from The Bay of Pigs and Missile Crisis onwards for about 10 years on and off, I am a novice and learn as much as I can each day. The last 2 to 3 years I have studied the events seriously and avidly (and lurked reading some great theories and postings on these boards). So you are no novice anymore, that's really a long time and shows great endurance and political sensibility! AnthonyAthletic wrote: For many years I basically thought 'USA Government cover up' and didn't throw too much light on the Mafia influence on the whole series of events. From reading this site and purchasing the James Files book and dvd's this took me seriously onto the major background from the Mafia and CIA connection, and how it unfolded. Me, too. AnthonyAthletic wrote: I don't have any answers, but I guess most persons theories are along similar lines on these boards. I wouldn't say we all would have absolutely no answers. AnthonyAthletic wrote: What were the tramps doing? I don't know. I don't know for sure, too, but I think speculating+research+correspondance is a legitmate and necessary act.AnthonyAthletic wrote: The reason to sit in the box car and hide away is all too strange. Maybe they were not quite sure, how thorougly the police will search after the shooting and hoped to be not detected. But if it is really true, that they just sat in the railroad car and waited for more than an hour, then it is obvious to me, that they wanted to be detected and that means they were ordered to do so and not run away earlier and that means that they had a diversion-from-the-real-shooters-function. Probably they supervised the parking lot area, the getaway of the shooters and hid the rifle of Marshall Caifano. They had some worst-case-scenario-function, why else were they placed there? That's just highly plausible to me. I can't prove it. AnthonyAthletic wrote: Surely if Holt is/was one of the tramps, why such amazement when the horrific action started outside??? Holt was physically shocked when realization hit home, possibly hiding through panic, surely nobody would be that gullable or that left in the dark ie (Sit in a box car at 12:25pm the day the President rides through the district, and not know what is going on). I can see where that would be a shock to the system. A mafia and CIA collaborator like Holt definitely knew in advance, that he was not ordered to Dealey Plaza, just because JFK needs more bystanders on the pedestrian to wave at him. AnthonyAthletic wrote: We know it has been claimed that Harrelson, Rogers and Chauncey Holt were the three tramps arrested in Dealey Plaza on 22nd November, 1963, if this is the case I wonder why that it was not until 1992 that the Dallas Police Department revealed that the three tramps were Gus Abrams, John F. Gedney and Harold Doyle? Doesn't 29 years after the event seems a tad late to issue a denial/cover story. Obviously the DPD still feared that further investigations in the JFK-case will throw a not so pleasant light on them. AnthonyAthletic wrote: Then again, we may read too much into the 3 Tramps story. (something which I haven't looked into too much). I would say, the main problem with the research about this is the non-communication with real potential assassins, conspirators and patsies nowadays. AnthonyAthletic wrote: Maybe it was just that simple when they were simply "let go"? If the tramps really had explosives in the railroad car and were no real railroad workers then just let them go is against law and a big failure of the police. If this action showes off illegal collaboration between police, CIA, FBI and mafia, then this act "let go" is in no way simple anymore. Chris

[AnthonyAthletic]

Just off topic for a moment. I have been reading Waldron/Hartmann's Ultimate Sacrifice which is a huge book and needs repeat reading to fully digest everything they claim/say; and this alleged (By the authors) cover up of the Cuban Coup scheduled for December 1st, 1963.I guess most people on boards such as this know of the story, but briefly the Kennedy's were working 'covertly' on a plot/plan to take out Castro starting on December 1st, this plan being called 'AMWorld', and basically the book boils down to how the Mafia got hold of this scheduled Coup and used it to their advantage. After watching a dvd featuring this story the possible conclusions drawn were.Prior to 18th November, Kennedy to be assassinated in Chicago. Thomas Arthur Valee (Patsy I), Valee gets arrested, although never charged. Attempt called off.18th November, Kennedy to be assassinated in Tampa. Gilberto Lopez (Patsy II). News that the plot was discovered was leaked back to Marcello via a Mole, Marcello calls the action off.22nd November, Dallas, LHO (Patsy III)Basically the Mafia thought and perhaps realized that they had a free ticket to get JFK. The basis of the book is "How could the murder of the President be fully investigated and the truth be found, if such truth could bring to the World an unthinkable aftermath? The World (USSR) find out about AMWorld and its a crisis again, only a bigger one". So the cover up begins. The Mafia have a ticket to Kill Kennedy knowing that the American Government must keep the AMWorld Dec 1st Cuban Coup totally under wraps.I know this is one of many theories, Roselli is mentioned repeatedly as a major player using his cover of working for the CIA when he was perpetrating and planning work for the Mafia with regards to killing Kennedy. This leads invariably to Marcello/Trafficante who were said to be under close surveylance and down the line onto Nicoletti in Dallas (after Chicago/Tampa) were no go's.Which leads me to Tom's prior post as very plausable for Holt and the Tramps as possible 'back up' Patsies? If the back guys don't get him and the Knoll guys do, and the world sees that its "come from the front", then....'look what we've found in this box car'. And it wouldn't be over an hour later, more like 1:16pm. I had never even considered this before. Of course 2 of the 3 tramps would certainly die prior to any trial.What was it Carlos Marcello said? "If three people know a secret and two of them are dead....then there's no problem"The stories of Valee & Lopez (Estranged Marine & Cuban Anti Castro) could show how deep this plan really was. Basically Dallas being the Mafia's last chance saloon prior to Dec 1st, but in Dallas they had the best Fall Guy in comparison to Valee in Chicago & Lopez in Tampa. Incidentally, didn't James Files refer to Chicago being called off due to it being 'too close to home'?

[AnthonyAthletic]

Chris,(All)I am under the impression, and it is my belief (belief used loosely until proven wrong), that the throat wound is a wound of entry from the front; then what is the consencus for who the likely suspects are for firing shots at JFK and thus causing this throat entry wound? And possible other front entry shots? Windscreen? The Guvernor etc.If Charles Nicoletti (Rear)/James Files (Side Front) was the possible fatal head shot assassin(s) appx 10-12 feet down from the picket fence, where are the likely places for a second team of Knoll shooters? The Badgeman position? to the left of Files? or further down the stockyard beyond the right side of Files?In the DVD's JF states he fired 'one shot and one shot only', but surely other shots were adjacent or oncoming frontal shots?Caifano? As you said in your last reply...Harrelson? Back to the tramps again? Surely Holt would have informed about Harrelson if indeed he was a shooter or A.N.Other?Tony

[Pennyworth]

Bob wrote:Jsnow915 wrote:First off...Pennyworth,you sound paranoid...I'm no one but me....check out Johnsnowmusic@myspace.com.....secondly...anything written here by me is MY opinion...I don't have to agree with anyone...I don't look up to ANY politician...they are not Gods to me...Kennedy might have changed the world,we don't know,he didn't live long enough...but to me they are nothing but manipulators fucking up a world which should be promoting peace and love and not war and hate...as far as the book I mentioned...yes I did mention a book by Harold Yardum...I don't know the title and I don't care to...I've played in a band with him ...the only thing he's an expert on is pot smoking and basically his brain is toast and is financially set for life due to an inheritance...I know the guy personally and know for a fact that his brain is mush...for any of you who put your faith in someone else,especially a politician,good luck...the Kennedy family wouldn't give you a free bottle of booze Paul...so don't ever question who I am...I'm not a phony hiding behind a fake name....my name is John Snow...and proud of it.First off, I believe John is who he says he is. Plus...John also loves the Beatles...which is a plus in my mind. However, John does not care for Neil Young, but other than that, he's all right. JUST kidding. Everyone has their own musical tastes and their own opinions. Speaking of opinions and this forum...FIRST a little history...this forum has been hacked at least twice as far as I know and taken off line. Plus, we now have these Bots (MSN botmedia and Ask Jeevs) that come around from time to time. Plus, Paul has had an issues with a former member named Dan, who may be someone else now, but Paul is very suspicious of almost everyone now. I will say this again...I think John Snow, Chad Duncan, Sara and others are who they say they are. Have we had others in this forum that were disinformation folks using ficticious names? YES...absolutely. I just wanted to give a little history lesson here so everyone knows what has gone on in the past. I used to get in pissing matches with Dan all the time, but it wasn't worth it. It was wasted energy. That's what the disinformation guys try to do. That's what corrupt politicians do. They keep you off message and any possible investigations, and they try to create another subject matter which is trivial, but they want the focus OFF them. Bottom line, that is why Paul is protective. Sometimes I agree with his opinions, sometimes I don't. But that is what a forum is all about.Looks like Dan errr John is giving us another snow job ZABASEARCH JOHN SNOW - Detailed Background Report Comprehensive Report. Criminal Records. Latest Contact Information. Premium Listing Find JOHN SNOW Get Current Phone and Address. Premium Listing Premium Services: Search by Phone Number Search by SS# Run a Background Check Public records found for JOHN SNOW with current & verified Phone & Address First Name Last Name City State All 50 States All 50 States Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware Wash. D.C. Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island So. Carolina So. Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming Zaba search ....No Results Match JOHN SNOWCheck Your Spelling and Try Your Search Again First Name Last Name Middle Name State All 50 States All 50 States Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware Wash. D.C. Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island So. Carolina So. Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming

[Pennyworth]

Which one is you John ? Search ResultsJohn Snow (physician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAug 21, 2007 ... John Snow (15 March 1813 – 16 June 1858) was a British physician and a leader in the adoption of anaesthesia and medical hygiene. ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Snow_(physician) - 54k - Cached - Similar pagesJohn W. Snow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaOn October 19, 2006, John W. Snow was named chairman of Cerberus Capital Management. On August 15, 2007, Snow was appointed the inaugural Newman Visiting ...en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Snow - 68k - Cached - Similar pagesJohn Snow - a historical giant in epidemiologyThe life and times of Dr. John Snow (1813-1858), with multimedia pages including the complete text of On the Communication of Cholera.http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow.html - 70k - Cached - Similar pagesBooks by John SNOWRegulation of Entry and Pricing in Truck ... - 1977 - 324 pagesRailroad Revitalization and Regulatory Reform - 1977 - 272 pagesHussein: A Biography - 1972 - 274 pagesbooks.google.com - More book results »John Snow, Inc. - Healthcare Consulting in the United States and ...John Snow Inc.(JSI), and JSI Research & Training Institute, Inc., provide consulting, research, training, and educational services for organizations seeking ...http://www.jsi.com/ - 33k - Cached - Similar pagesNorth Carolina General Assembly - Senator John Snow (Democrat ...The Official Site of the North Carolina General Assembly.http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/members/ ... UserID=135 - 52k - Cached - Similar pagesCSISS Classics - John Snow: The London Cholera Epidemic of 1854It wasn't until 1854, when Cholera struck England once again, that Snow was able to legitimate his argument that Cholera was spread through contaminated ...http://www.csiss.org/classics/content/8 - 10k - Cached - Similar pagesThe John Snow Archive and Research CompanionJohn Snow's contributions during the early years of inhalation anesthesia, and his investigations during two mid–century cholera epidemics in Victorian ...matrix.msu.edu/~johnsnow/ - 9k - Cached - Similar pages150th Anniversary of John Snow and the Pump HandleSep 2, 2004 ... John Snow, M.D. (1813--1858), a legendary figure in epidemiology, provided one of the earliest examples of using epidemiologic methods to ...http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5334a1.htm - 16k - Cached - Similar pagesby D AllJon Snow's Hidden Iraq 50 min - Mar 19, 2008 - Five years after the invasion, Jon Snow examines the brutal reality of life inside post-invasion Iraq. ...video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3886376311962177051 [PDF] Testimony of John Snow at Hearing on the Role of Federal ...File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTMLOct 23, 2008 ... The Honorable John W. Snow. Before the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. United States House of Representatives ...oversight.house.gov/documents/20081023100505.pdf - Similar pages

[Pennyworth]

I did another search.Whic one are you JOhn?Member Login People SearchBackground CheckCriminal RecordsMore Searches Find this person: First: Mid: Last: City: State: Zip: Age: All States Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut D.C. Delaware Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Minnesota Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming Similar names: Jack Snow, Johnny Snow, Jonathan Snow, Jon Snow Found 95 results for John Snow: For better results, please add a city and state Name/AKAs Age Address, City, State Phone Possible Relatives 1. SNOW, JOHN LOWELL, MA 2. SNOW, JOHN DANVERS, MA CIARAMITARO, KIMBERLY S (age 42)MIZIOCH, LINDA J (age 61)SNOW, H WHITTIERsee all relatives... 3. SNOW, JOHN GREENBRIER, AR 4. SNOW, JOHN JACKSONVILLE, ARSHERWOOD, AR 5. SNOW, JOHN BOYNTON BEACH, FLWEST PALM BEACH, FL SNOW, MECHELLE B (age 41) 6. SNOW, JOHN RIVERVIEW, FL 7. SNOW, JOHNNIE EAssociated names:SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JOHN SMYTH MIDDLESBORO, KYKNOXVILLE, TNLOUISVILLE, TNBLUE RIDGE, VA SNOW, DOROTHY MILLER (age 67)WHITAKER, FRANCES LOUISE (age 36) 8. SNOW, JOHN FOREST, MS 9. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JOSEPH WILLIAM (age 56)SNOW, EMMA J (age 77)SNOW, EMMA DUCKER (age 77)see all relatives... 10. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, KRISTINE M 11. SNOW, JOHN 12. SNOW, JOHN 13. SNOW, JOHN 14. SNOW, JOHN 15. SNOW, JOHN 16. SNOW, JOHN 17. SNOW, JOHN 18. SNOW, JOHN 19. SNOW, JOHN WILLIAMS, SHERRI A (age 57) 20. SNOW, JOHN CAMPBELL, TINA MARIE (age 39) 21. SNOW, JOHN 22. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, WILLIAM O (age 97)SNOW, ALICE E (age 94) 23. SNOW, JOHN 24. SNOW, JOHN 25. SNOW, JOHN 26. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JOHNNIE LEROY (age 67)SNOW, SAM (age 57)SNOW, PEARLINE (age 60) 27. SNOW, JOHN 28. SNOW, JOHN 29. SPOONER, JOHN A 30. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, DELROY EVANS (age 48)SNOW, GARY 31. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JOHNNY W 32. SNOW, JOHN 33. SNOW, JOHN 34. SNOW, JOHN CAMP POINT, IL 35. SNOW, JOHN 36. SNOW, JOHN 37. SHOOK, BURL HAssociated names:SHOOK, H BURLSNOW, JOHN SHOOK, MAUDE C (age 94)SHOOK, H BURLSNOW, JOHN HENRY (age 40)see all relatives... 38. SHARI, PACKAssociated names:SNOW, JOHN SNOW, STRATTON J (age 62) 39. SNOW, JOHN HINKEL, SHANNON LYNN (age 25)SNOW, JOANNA (age 56)SNOW, RICHARD (age 56)see all relatives... 40. SNOW, JOHN 41. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, CATHYSNOW, GREG 42. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, SHIRLEY J (age 46) 43. SNON, JOHN FAssociated names:SNOW, JOHN TUSCALOOSA, AL SNOW, RHONDA MISHAUN (age 47)SNOW, R 44. SNOU, JOHN PAssociated names:SNOW, JOHN MESA, AZ 45. SNOW, JOHN SCOTTSDALE, AZ 46. SNOW, JOHN RATLIFF, MARILYN E (age 66)SNOW, EVERETT LEON (age 71) 47. SNOW, JOHN ANDERSON, CA 48. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, EDWARD 49. SNOW, JOHN 50. SNOW, JOHN LINCOLN, MA 51. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, LINDA 52. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, LINDA 53. SNOW, JOHN 54. SNOW, JOHN 55. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JOHNNY R (age 57) 56. SNOW, JOHN 57. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, JAMES H (age 80)THURMAN, BETTY JO (age 71) 58. SNOW, JOHN 59. SNOW, JOHN 60. SNOW, JOHN PENSACOLA, FL SNOW, SKARLOTTE 61. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, EMILY 62. SNOW, JOHN 63. SNOW, JOHN 64. SNOW, JOHN 65. SNOW, JOHN 66. SNOW, JOHN 67. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, CHERYL 68. SNOW, JOHN 69. SNOW, JOHN 70. SNOW, JOHN 71. SNOW, JOHN 72. SNOW, JOHN DOWNERS GROVE, IL 73. SNOW, JOHN 74. SNOW, JOHN 75. SNOW, JOHN DECATUR, IL 76. SNOW, JOHN LONE JACK, MO 77. SNOW, JOHN 78. SNOW, JOHN 79. SNOW, JOHN 80. SNOW, JOHN 81. SNOW, JOHN 82. SNOW, JOHN 83. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, HEIDI 84. SNOW, JOHN 85. SNOW, JOHN 86. SNOW, JOHN 87. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, ALEXANDER J (age 62)SNOW, DONALD C (age 56) 88. SNOW, JOHN 89. SNOW, JOHN RAssociated names:SNOW, JOHN 90. SNOW, JOHN 91. SNOW, JOHN 92. SNOW, JOHN 93. SNOW, JOHN 94. SNOW, JOHN OAK GROVE, KY 95. SNOW, JOHN SNOW, MICHELE http://www.usa-people-search.com/Default.aspx?view=PE

[Pennyworth]

Jsnow915 wrote:First off...Pennyworth,you sound paranoid...I'm no one but me....check out Johnsnowmusic@myspace.com.....secondly...anything written here by me is MY opinion...I don't have to agree with anyone...I don't look up to ANY politician...they are not Gods to me...Kennedy might have changed the world,we don't know,he didn't live long enough...but to me they are nothing but manipulators fucking up a world which should be promoting peace and love and not war and hate...as far as the book I mentioned...yes I did mention a book by Harold Yardum...I don't know the title and I don't care to...I've played in a band with him ...the only thing he's an expert on is pot smoking and basically his brain is toast and is financially set for life due to an inheritance...I know the guy personally and know for a fact that his brain is mush...for any of you who put your faith in someone else,especially a politician,good luck...the Kennedy family wouldn't give you a free bottle of booze Paul...so don't ever question who I am...I'm not a phony hiding behind a fake name....my name is John Snow...and proud of it.Can anyone answer me, does this sound like Dan or not? Sounds like someone or something ruffled his fur. Dan and I both have a few things in common , we both know someone who was involved and we both have knowledge of other crimes in which the aforementioned someone is without a doubt involved. Thats why he is hanging here. a lot . incognito. Add Anthony Athletic to Dan's sybil list.

[John Woods]

There was a second set of tramps arrested in the plaza as seen in the dca film footage.johnw

[ChristophMessner]

John Woods wrote:There was a second set of tramps arrested in the plaza as seen in the dca film footage. johnw Very intersting! John, can you give me any link to this film footage? Chris AnthonyAthletic wrote:Chris,(All)I am under the impression, and it is my belief (belief used loosely until proven wrong), that the throat wound is a wound of entry from the front; then what is the consencus for who the likely suspects are for firing shots at JFK and thus causing this throat entry wound? And possible other front entry shots? Windscreen? The Guvernor etc.If Charles Nicoletti (Rear)/James Files (Side Front) was the possible fatal head shot assassin(s) appx 10-12 feet down from the picket fence, where are the likely places for a second team of Knoll shooters? The Badgeman position? to the left of Files? or further down the stockyard beyond the right side of Files?In the DVD's JF states he fired 'one shot and one shot only', but surely other shots were adjacent or oncoming frontal shots?Caifano? As you said in your last reply...Harrelson? Back to the tramps again? Surely Holt would have informed about Harrelson if indeed he was a shooter or A.N.Other?Tony Anthony, my estimation is, that most probably the throat wound was headshot mercury shrapnel. But I cannot prove that. So if it was from a shot from the front, we have to check the trajectory angles which do not go through Mr. Connally or would not continue to Jackie's body. That remaining angle span is not that wide and my guess is, any possible second shooter from behind the fence was pretty close to James Files' position and additionally I guess they agreed upon shooting only at the same time frame shortly before. I think the second shooter was Caifano, but he missed. A bullet which would have entered the throat from that angle close to Files most probably would have exited the soft neck flesh at the left side the neck from JFK's perspective. The badgeman position however was far too left from Files' perspective to match with both the headshot and the throat wound trajectories. Badgeman is Mackish phantasy. Or do you believe in policemen-disguises, who wear shirt-ingerated badge lamps to make their badges extra dectable despite full shadow under the trees? Chris

[AnthonyAthletic]

Chris,After watching Spooks, Hoods...it was a point of interest where Holt says he met Harrelson & Rodgers back in the box car after basically 'not being with them for a spell'. Leads me also to think about the old man who saw one gunman toss a rifle to his associate (further down from Files location). I forget the old man's name, you know who I mean. And didn't Bowers see two men also, in a position further down from the Files location? Caifano is very possible.Its a huge can of worms when you watch the Files dvd's and listen to the person's named as present on that day. There's information from all aspects as the cream of hitmen; seemed to be on a Busman's Holiday on the 22/11/63.Tony