Throat wound was headshot(s) shrapnel

[John Beckham]

"mercury shrapnel from the right temple would have had to pass face skull bones and therefore it is improbable that the throat wound was caused by shrapnel from Files' bullet?" i think that's true. perhaps, if you think he was shot in the head twice (from the rear just before getting hit in the temple) then it may be fragment from the bullet from behind."a second shooter close to James Files behind the fence must have shot much earlier than Files to hit the middle of the throat?"i personally don't think so. i do not believe there are two shooters on the knoll. "there was heard no shot from the grassy knoll seconds before Files' shot?"i agree.

[saracarter766]

ChristophMessner wrote:Tom, John, Pasquale, Sara, thanks for your considerations. I did not know, that there really was a second window with glass between the Connallys and the agents so far. To me it appears certain now that the throat wound was NOT from a bullet through windshield plus intermediate shield. And that means that if the throat wound came from a separate bullet it must have come from sideward, either the south or the north knoll. And because the south knoll is very improbable, because of the distance and Mrs. Connally inbetween in the line of fire it is most probable the north knoll and there from behind the fence, because from where the second shell was found the throat wound would have been more to the right of the neck. Do you agree with me, that mercury shrapnel from the right temple would have had to pass face skull bones and therefore it is improbable that the throat wound was caused by shrapnel from Files' bullet? Do you agree with me, that a second shooter close to James Files behind the fence must have shot much earlier than Files to hit the middle of the throat? Do you agree with me, that there was heard no shot from the grassy knoll seconds before Files' shot? Chrisno problem christopher.

[ChristophMessner]

conspiracybuff wrote:"mercury shrapnel from the right temple would have had to pass face skull bones and therefore it is improbable that the throat wound was caused by shrapnel from Files' bullet?" i think that's true. perhaps, if you think he was shot in the head twice (from the rear just before getting hit in the temple) then it may be fragment from the bullet from behind.That's what I said all the time. conspiracybuff wrote: "a second shooter close to James Files behind the fence must have shot much earlier than Files to hit the middle of the throat?"i personally don't think so. i do not believe there are two shooters on the knoll.I tend to not believe in a second shooter behind the fence, too. But if there was, he must have shot earlier than Files with a silencer, to come into the middle of the throat without noise. conspiracybuff wrote: "there was heard no shot from the grassy knoll seconds before Files' shot?"i agree.summa summarum: 1. No second gunmen from behind the fence, just a second man, who controlled, spotted or radioed. 2. Throat+face wounds are shrapnel from the headshot bullet from behind or a collision between the two headshot bullets. Could it have been a mere bone shrapnel? saracarter766 wrote: no problem christopher.Sarah, I'm happy that finding answers to the questions as follows is no problem for you: a) That mercury shrapnel from the right temple would have had to pass face skull bones and therefore is it improbable that the throat wound was caused by shrapnel from Files' bullet? b) A second shooter close to James Files behind the fence must have shot much earlier than Files to hit the middle of the throat, because at Files' moment he would have hit the right side of the neck? c) If there was heard no shot from the grassy knoll seconds before Files' shot, there most probably was no second gunman behind the fence. So what caused the throat wound? Chris

[tom jeffers]

food for thought[img]slaughter1.jpg[/img]

[tpfleming]

Has anyone considered this--a theory proposed by an author (can't recall his name) years ago claimed that the throat wound was inflicted by umbrella man (Louis Witt or Gordon Novel or whoever he was) shooting a small flechette through the tip of his umbrella. It contained a paralyzing agent which kept JFK upright for the kill shot. Two facts support this wild contention: one) the CIA had such a weapon available to it in 1963; two) umbrella man's movements right before and after the president raises his arms and clenches his fists are suspicious. UM raises the umbrella and reaches inside to release the latch as the umbrella opens, and then he quickly twirls it and lowers it after the throat strike is made.Response to an earlier post about the prisitine bullet. CE 399 was a plant. Someone put it on the stretcher at Parkland. It was never fired in Dealey Plaza.Tim Flemingwww.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.htmlhttp://leftlooking.blogspot.com

[John Beckham]

sorry TP, if umbrella man was a shooter, then it might as well be The Penguin. i personally don't believe it.

[ChristophMessner]

Hi Tom, thanks a lot for this picture! Who drew it?Don't you think position 1 is a little improbable, because it was too close to Zapruder and that shot would have gone through spectators or even Bosch+Umbrella standing lined up on Elm? Hi Tim, the umbrella man had the umbrella opened and up while JFK drove by and he lifted the umbrella shortly then to give signal. Would you hit the target while still far away or while rapidly moving by without endangering the wrong persons? Did you write "Murder of an American Nazi" by yourself? Chris

[tpfleming]

Yes, Chris, I wrote the book myself. The "Nazi" of the title is Walter Dornberger, Bell Helicopter employee in the same department as Michael Paine. I assume everyone here is familiar with Michael and Ruth Paine and their involvement in the JFK plot. What exactly, then, do you suppose was umbrella man's purpose? Signal man? Don't you think such a conspicuous signal (flailing a black umbrella on a bright, sunny day) was just as risky as firing a flechette? Such a strange movement certainly risked exposure. Then again, I suppose the plotters never really believed that the Zapruder film would be released in our lifetimes. C.D. Jackson, of Life magazine, was nothing if not a CIA asset. Thus, plotters probably assumed that umbrella man's actions would be seen only by eyewitnesses. And we know what's happened to many of the eyewitnesses.Tim Flemingwww.eloquentbooks/MurderOfAnAmericanNazi.htmlhttp://leftlooking.blogspot.com

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

tpfleming wrote:Has anyone considered this--a theory proposed by an author (can't recall his name) years ago claimed that the throat wound was inflicted by umbrella man (Louis Witt or Gordon Novel or whoever he was) shooting a small flechette through the tip of his umbrella. It contained a paralyzing agent which kept JFK upright for the kill shot. Two facts support this wild contention: one) the CIA had such a weapon available to it in 1963; two) umbrella man's movements right before and after the president raises his arms and clenches his fists are suspicious. UM raises the umbrella and reaches inside to release the latch as the umbrella opens, and then he quickly twirls it and lowers it after the throat strike is made.Response to an earlier post about the prisitine bullet. CE 399 was a plant. Someone put it on the stretcher at Parkland. It was never fired in Dealey Plaza.Tim Fleminghttp://www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmerica ... t.comTim,I HAVE heard the umbrella theory too, and yes the CIA DID have that weapon. They said so in the senate committee on assassinations in the mid 1970s. The umbrella shot a paralyzing agent in dart form. There are two men on the curb, and one of them, the darker one, is believed to be one of the main anti-Castro Cubans...I forget his name...Luis Posada Carilles? Dr. Death? Is that who they think it is?It IS weird that in the Zapruder film you can see the umbrella opened as JFK passes that location...and it's sunny!

[Bob]

Pasquale DiFabrizio wrote:tpfleming wrote:Has anyone considered this--a theory proposed by an author (can't recall his name) years ago claimed that the throat wound was inflicted by umbrella man (Louis Witt or Gordon Novel or whoever he was) shooting a small flechette through the tip of his umbrella. It contained a paralyzing agent which kept JFK upright for the kill shot. Two facts support this wild contention: one) the CIA had such a weapon available to it in 1963; two) umbrella man's movements right before and after the president raises his arms and clenches his fists are suspicious. UM raises the umbrella and reaches inside to release the latch as the umbrella opens, and then he quickly twirls it and lowers it after the throat strike is made.Response to an earlier post about the prisitine bullet. CE 399 was a plant. Someone put it on the stretcher at Parkland. It was never fired in Dealey Plaza.Tim Fleminghttp://www.eloquentbooks.com/MurderOfAnAmerica ... t.comTim,I HAVE heard the umbrella theory too, and yes the CIA DID have that weapon. They said so in the senate committee on assassinations in the mid 1970s. The umbrella shot a paralyzing agent in dart form. There are two men on the curb, and one of them, the darker one, is believed to be one of the main anti-Castro Cubans...I forget his name...Luis Posada Carilles? Dr. Death? Is that who they think it is?It IS weird that in the Zapruder film you can see the umbrella opened as JFK passes that location...and it's sunny!Pasquale, it was Orlando Bosch, not Luis Posada Carriles who looks to be on the curb. However, Posada Carriles was in Dealey Plaza that day.