The Motorcade, Alternate Routes and Bullshit.

[SeamusCoogan]

The Motorcade, Alternate Routes and Bullshit.From all of the opinions I have have read and heard voiced the only legitimate point made by the Secret Service was their taking the Motorcade down Main Street. Its inescapable that this was where JFK had to go to maximise his visit, I see no issue here. The Key problem and the key question is was it really necessary to take the detour down Houston & Elm? Well, before we begin I have added a little something just so no one can lie their teeth off and say that these streets or on ramps did not exist in 1963 as depicted in the Google Earth pictures I utilised (trust me theres always one). If the doubtful care to click the link below to a 1962 Enco map, they can clearly see that everything is where it should be.http://www.oscarmail.net/dfwfreeways/im ... d.jpgAfter looking at this map you may notice how pivotal a part Continental Avenue is in both of my scenarios oh and dont be put off by some schmuck telling you how dangerous and hilly Continental Avenue off of South Lamar street is. If Kennedy had been gassing it and had legitimate security (unlike he had that day) it would be a sinch. Furthermore, dont let anybody try and tell you about Kennedy and oncoming traffic and anything like that. Its the President okay, he can drive anywhere he damn well pleases...honestly some people you have to wonder.Lame Excuses.Now because they cannot lie about the lay out of Dallas City, the excuses from Lawson and Sorrells are plentiful and utterly pathetic. Take a look at the mass of inconsistencies they present herein.http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/VP/vp-factsAlso take a look at this ludicrusly apologist version here, I cannot believe that these guys are taken at their word. (Well, no I mean this was the HSCA and what a total and utter bunch of pussies these guys were).http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo ... htmMcAdams has the original maps here.http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htmMcAdams makes some ludicrous calls. But just for the sake of this mini essay lets say that McAdams is correct and that if JFK was travelling down Main Street through Dealey Plaza that JFK's Limo could not pull a U Turn onto Stemmons. Now judging by the size of the abutments beyond the Triple Underpass McAdams (at least on the surface) has a point. What he doesnt mention though is that every sharp shooter who has ever spoken about the case has firmly put JFK travelling down Main as too harder shot to make from the either the Gnoll or the Depository. Nor do McAdams and others mention that via Main Street there were a number of alternate routes that of course eliminated the threats from the Depository or the Gnoll. After reviewing Vince Palamaras work. I have come up with what I believe were the two most likely alternative routes (while baring in mind the legitimate importance of Main Street to the Presidential motorcade). Route 1 is longer and safer while route 2 is Quicker and slightly riskier (but nowhere near as risky as Houston/Elm)The Dead Mans Route: An Introduction.The Actual Route to the Trade Mart going past the infamous Knoll is below. I measured this from the point JFK's Limo turned from Main to Houston. From here they say this would have had JFK at the Trade Mart in about 5-8 (minutes speed dependant.)3.77-3.85 Km = 2.34 -2.42 MilesThe Living Mans Route One: The Long way Round. (Main Through Dealey Plaza) Map 1.


Map 1.

[kenmurray]

Excellent work there Seamus. Remember too when the fatal head shot occurred there were less of a crowd around ala Jean Hill and Mary Morman for example.

[Bob]

Indeed...nicely done Seamus! The route taken proves to me that SOME...not all...in the Secret Service were involved in the conspiracy.

[SeamusCoogan]

kenmurray wrote:Excellent work there Seamus. Remember too when the fatal head shot occurred there were less of a crowd around ala Jean Hill and Mary Morman for example.Yeah cheers. Ken I gave a brief mention to Tague I;ve just been tidying up one or two things and I missed your comments. Yes I'll add that by Dealey the crowd had thinned out quite nicely. Thanks for thumbs up.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:Indeed...nicely done Seamus! The route taken proves to me that SOME...not all...in the Secret Service were involved in the conspiracy.Hmm its up for debate but Lawson and Sorrell's are certainly dirty in my book and I presented the above to Jim Di and he said something akin to "Ive felt dodgey about him for awhile as well". But , really most of my heads up came from Palamara.Though Vince Palamara sold out, he still backs his work on the secret service to this day and gives a good running account of whom he thinks made the biggest mistakes and most controversial stories. Furthermore most of the guys in the SS hated Kennedy and thought he was soft on Communism. This is written about by Vince Palamara. His book thankfully is online.Winston Lawson went onto join David Phillips in the retired US intelligence officers group (I forget their name). Further more, he was in direct contact with the SS two IC in Washington that day, this guy really ran the Secret Service by all accounts ......guess who that guy served with in the OSS Jim Angelton. As you know the OSS were the precursors to the CIA. Thus its safe to say that Lawson and his boss were in fact CIA to the hilt. The inference her is that Angelton had a very big part to play in the motorcade that day but I must be careful this is just speculation but enticing nonetheless.Palamara has all of this written down. Go to Chapter 10-13 Palamara nails everyone.http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1.htmlHappy hunting Bob old son.

[Bob]

SeamusCoogan wrote:Bob wrote:Indeed...nicely done Seamus! The route taken proves to me that SOME...not all...in the Secret Service were involved in the conspiracy.Hmm its up for debate but Lawson and Sorrell's are certainly dirty in my book and I presented the above to Jim Di and he said something akin to "Ive felt dodgey about him for awhile as well". But , really most of my heads up came from Palamara.Though Vince Palamara sold out, he still backs his work on the secret service to this day and gives a good running account of whom he thinks made the biggest mistakes and most controversial stories. Furthermore most of the guys in the SS hated Kennedy and thought he was soft on Communism. This is written about by Vince Palamara. His book thankfully is online.Winston Lawson went onto join David Phillips in the retired US intelligence officers group (I forget their name). Further more, he was in direct contact with the SS two IC in Washington that day, this guy really ran the Secret Service by all accounts ......guess who that guy served with in the OSS Jim Angelton. As you know the OSS were the precursors to the CIA. Thus its safe to say that Lawson and his boss were in fact CIA to the hilt. The inference her is that Angelton had a very big part to play in the motorcade that day but I must be careful this is just speculation but enticing nonetheless.Palamara has all of this written down. Go to Chapter 10-13 Palamara nails everyone.http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1.htmlHappy hunting Bob old son.Great stuff Seamus. I've read through some of the information, and a lot of the people I suspected were named like Roberts and Kellerman. I'm also with you on Lawton and Sorrels. I've got to run out for awhile, and I haven't seen Bill Greer's name yet as I've read through the material. Greer DEFINITELY was involved. Any good political driver worth his salt would have been out of there like a bat out of hell at the first sound of gunfire. Greer and Kellerman actually watch the fatal shot or shots on JFK as they looked backward. Only then did Greer speed away. Some witnesses say that Greer slowed down and some say he actually stopped.

[SeamusCoogan]

Bob wrote:SeamusCoogan wrote:Bob wrote:Indeed...nicely done Seamus! The route taken proves to me that SOME...not all...in the Secret Service were involved in the conspiracy.Hmm its up for debate but Lawson and Sorrell's are certainly dirty in my book and I presented the above to Jim Di and he said something akin to "Ive felt dodgey about him for awhile as well". But , really most of my heads up came from Palamara.Though Vince Palamara sold out, he still backs his work on the secret service to this day and gives a good running account of whom he thinks made the biggest mistakes and most controversial stories. Furthermore most of the guys in the SS hated Kennedy and thought he was soft on Communism. This is written about by Vince Palamara. His book thankfully is online.Winston Lawson went onto join David Phillips in the retired US intelligence officers group (I forget their name). Further more, he was in direct contact with the SS two IC in Washington that day, this guy really ran the Secret Service by all accounts ......guess who that guy served with in the OSS Jim Angelton. As you know the OSS were the precursors to the CIA. Thus its safe to say that Lawson and his boss were in fact CIA to the hilt. The inference her is that Angelton had a very big part to play in the motorcade that day but I must be careful this is just speculation but enticing nonetheless.Palamara has all of this written down. Go to Chapter 10-13 Palamara nails everyone.http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v4n1.htmlHappy hunting Bob old son.Great stuff Seamus. I've read through some of the information, and a lot of the people I suspected were named like Roberts and Kellerman. I'm also with you on Lawton and Sorrels. I've got to run out for awhile, and I haven't seen Bill Greer's name yet as I've read through the material. Greer DEFINITELY was involved. Any good political driver worth his salt would have been out of there like a bat out of hell at the first sound of gunfire. Greer and Kellerman actually watch the fatal shot or shots on JFK as they looked backward. Only then did Greer speed away. Some witnesses say that Greer slowed down and some say he actually stopped.You may wanna re-read about Kellerman. Kellerman told a number of people close to him or they over heard him that he believed that their was a conspiracy and if you look at his testimony the Warren Commission had some problems with him. Palamara's take is pretty good. Reading between the lines of what he has written Greer was very sheepish, and Kellerman was scared out of his wits. It would seem that Greer was told in no uncertain terms what was going to be done that day and he was told to shut the hell up or else. So you have one guy whose compromised and both knowing whats gonna happen to them. I trust Palamaras take on them both. Greers really the guy whose in deep here.

[Bob]

I'll focus on Kellerman more closely as you suggested. The thing about Kellerman that was the most interesting to me was the fact that he testified JFK said he "was hit" after the first shot. Some people think the first shot was a throat wound, while others (like me) think that was an upper back wound that caused JFK to throw his hands up near his throat. Right now, I think the throat wound was because of the mercury shrapnel from the Files headshot. But we can debate that in another thread. The main thing is that Kellerman said JFK was able to let people know he was hit initially. If Kellerman heard that, what the hell was Greer doing, as he had to hear the same thing. If he puts the pedal to the metal then, JFK probably lives. But if he was involved in the conspiracy, he drives as poorly as he did that day, as in slowing down and braking.

[ThomZajac]

It's hard to keep up with you boys- I was supposed to make love to my wife tonight..(Great work!)

[Bob]

ThomZajac wrote:It's hard to keep up with you boys- I was supposed to make love to my wife tonight..(Great work!)Forget the forum for awhile Thom. The wife comes first. Just tell your wife..."I just want to make love to you...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiUCE7w0_d4I worked security for a Foghat concert in college.The aroma was thick in the crowd and in the dressing room if you know what I mean.