What real Evidence ?

[andries]

After almost fifty years off ,tracking and tracing hoping finding,digging.assuming,concluding etc etc etc, it.s also fair to say what clear evidence is there, to win a case like this and force gouverment institutions to open their documents for further evidence that there was mutch more to it, as we all think,and hope.What,s that evidence ? so many things we want to be as evidence.Files is still no evidence,neither is hoffman or bowers or even sam holland an co Also all the witneses seeing smoke and running towards the fence is still no real evidenceAll witneses hearing two shots very close together is still no real evidenceThe whole stupid autopsy is still no evidenceThe total stupid moment of cleaning the presidentiel limosine is no evidenceAll off a sudden a total different policy ordered by LBJ is no real evidence The Films and pics that,s left are sadly enough still no evidence, they are only confusing things The suspicius deadcourses of a number off important witneses are also no evidenceAlllan dulles taking seat in the WC is no evidenceThe motorcaderoute,Oswald being silenced for a million aduence we wish it was evidence By all means,there was more than Oswald but how do we find it ?i cannot find better reasons that i mentioned above, there all together good enough to more than assume that there was mutch more than Oswald,but in court it,s nearly nondid i leave some important out ?

[Dealey Joe]

Andries to me the only evidence we have are pesonal testimonies.I think we do have some of those.There are more But the ones I am aware of is:1. James Files makes his stament of fact. no one has shown him to be a liar.2. Tosh Plumlee makes statements of fact that pertained to him with no rebutal.3. Chauncy Holt makes statements of fact that have not been rebutted.4. Judyth Vary Baker makes statements of facts about LHO in New Orleans with no rebutal.5. Ed Haslam makes statement of facts about happenings in New orleans.6. Madyline Brown makes statements of facts concerning herself and her associations with LBJ and all his cohorts.7. LBJ's lawyer has made serioyse statements about what he knows about LBJ. and I am sure there are others we could put on this list.People have been condemmed and hanged with far less evidence.The problem as I see it is not the evidence but someone foolhardy enough to persue it.anyone who gets close to this ends up on the wrong side of the sod pushing up daiseys.We are not at war with normal enemies.We are battling the forces of evil who are hidden and control the world as we know it.

[andries]

sure Joe,but this is America,and no matter what argument,they have alway,s found something about it to reject it.But somewhere arround there must be the ultimate evidence arround that they cannot reject or ignore,what could that be ?

[Dealey Joe]

WEll I think you hit it.The evidence is there but no one here has the balls to run with it,Jim Garrison tried with what he knew back them and you see how far he got.And he was a prosecutor

[jfkanon]

Andries,Perhaps you should define what you mean by "real evidence." Most of the things you listed are real and are evidence. You might question the reliability, and therefore the weight of the evidence, but they are evidence.For example, you said "... all the witneses seeing smoke and running towards the fence is still no real evidence." The fact that so many witnesses saw smoke (and smelled gunpowder) at the grassy knoll IS evidence that a shot was fired from there. The fact that so many witnesses ran towards the fence, rather than toward the TSDB, IS evidence that a shot was fired from the knoll area.If "real evidence" means evidence sufficient to get the government to release information implicating the government, then nothing will ever be real evidence.Off the top of my head, I would say that the fact that some of the autopsy photos: A) contradict other autopsy photos;B) contradict the x-rays; and C) confirm what the doctors at Parkland saw rather than what was seen at the official autopsy, is real evidence. Unless Oswald's ghost doctored those photos, it's incontrovertible evidence of a conspiracy. Similarly, the fact that the bullet fragments removed from Gov. Connolly's body weighed more than the amount missing from the magic bullet is an example of real evidence.Also, the fact that, in order to believe the lone gunman theory, you have to believe that the murder weapon, in immediate succession, fired one bullet which (besides defying the laws of physics) remained virtually indestructible, and another bullet which burst into fragments upon impact, is real evidence. In other words, the ballistics are real evidence.

[andries]

I can,t think off any better evidence than The unbelievable amazing matchless masterpiece that the FBI and the Warren commision did produce was not the single bullet according to me,because there are still some individuals arround who try to recreate this amazing UFO with theories whom make pythagoras and Eistein look like children.The ultimate evidence for me is the amazing refuse off the zapruder film by the FBI as to be investigated because it would not be any evidentiary valeuIn all country,s off the world investigators and reseachers would easily kill eachother for sutch a piece of help to solve a case.

[Phil Dragoo]

The Elevator Escape Theory by Richard Gilbride is a fascinating resolution to an overlooked mystery.Howard Rowland saw two different riflemen in two different Depository windows. How did they escape? Did you know there was a CIA veteran in the Depository immediately after the assassination named Shelley?That the person leaving the Depository whom Roger Craig mistook as Oswald was Lovelady.That Lovelady and Shelley were guarding an elevator--which was used by the riflemen in their escape--as Oswald sat in the Domino Room.I invite you to do as I just did: read this thirty-three-page mystery--it's as good as Agatha Christie's Orient Express, that tale wherein a multitude of witnesses gave seemingly innocent testimony, only to emerge as conconspirators.http://reopenkennedycase.weebly.com/gilbride.htmlAnd you may find that the photos of the two faces may resemble Nicoletti and Roselli. The HSCA managed to destroy the negative of one of the photos during enhancement at Stanford--were they afraid the face would be recognized.

[Bob]

Phil Dragoo wrote:The Elevator Escape Theory by Richard Gilbride is a fascinating resolution to an overlooked mystery.Howard Rowland saw two different riflemen in two different Depository windows. How did they escape? Did you know there was a CIA veteran in the Depository immediately after the assassination named Shelley?That the person leaving the Depository whom Roger Craig mistook as Oswald was Lovelady.That Lovelady and Shelley were guarding an elevator--which was used by the riflemen in their escape--as Oswald sat in the Domino Room.I invite you to do as I just did: read this thirty-three-page mystery--it's as good as Agatha Christie's Orient Express, that tale wherein a multitude of witnesses gave seemingly innocent testimony, only to emerge as conconspirators.http://reopenkennedycase.weebly.com/gilbride.htmlAnd you may find that the photos of the two faces may resemble Nicoletti and Roselli. The HSCA managed to destroy the negative of one of the photos during enhancement at Stanford--were they afraid the face would be recognized.Interesting read Phil. Plus, remember who owned the TSBD...D.H. Byrd. Byrd was also the founder of the LCAP, who had members such as Lee Harvey Oswald, David Ferrie, Charles Rogers and Barry Seal. The LCAP was always known as a CIA breeding ground. Byrd was close friends with LBJ. Byrd was also in the Dallas Petroleum Club along with David Atlee Phillips, Poppy Bu$h and George DeMohrenshildt. Billy Lovelady looking like Oswald and ALSO working at the TSBD on 11/22/1963 was NOT just a coincidence. There were more suspicious people as well at the TSBD as the story suggests.

[andries]

well it,s it,s an interesting epos i,l conclud for myself that this is evidence without a doubt that LHO was absolutely not the perfect patsy for this crime I,l put it on second place as evidence for conspiracy after the rejecting from the ZF by the FBI.

[Lofty]

Could it be, that given the building was only in operation a few months, prior to the assassination that it was another CIA front company ?With 'selected ' employees in critical positions , ie Williams, Dougherty, Arcne et al, planted by the CIA to aid the snipers and to prevent any legitimate employees (if there were any,from getting in the way )It seems to me after reading that document, that the TSBD was not and has not since been given any consideration as to its potential to be a lot more involved than was previously assumed. I always thought that the TSBD was just a convienient perch from which to stage the shooting, i havent considered the possibility of it being anything other than that.The work by Gilbride has given me a lot more food for thought regarding this.A fascinating document indeed.