Did JFK Know What He Was Up Against?

[Bob]

Stan wrote:I've heard Pierre Salinger say the Kennedy brothers would talk of assassination:"The higher ups don't want you negotiating with Communists. Be careful. If you do so, they'll take you out."Robert spoke of a military takeover of the United States during the Cuban Missile Crisis if Jack did not act.Mae Brussell said that JFK put Bobby in charge of cleaning up the CIA, "the government behind my back."Arthur Schlesinger has said the Kennedys were "at war" with the national security state during those years.Ike warned of the Military Industrial Complex.JFK was not a stupid man - in fact, I think that lead to his death. He had learned to out manipulate the manipulators. Did he know the change that he was attempting to bring could lead to his death? Did he just not care? From what I've gathered, JFK was weary of the military and intelligence organizations. But, surely he was aware of the power behind them: Wall Street and The Corporate American Empire. Did he really think they'd allow him to make the changes he had planned? He grew up the son of Joe. He had to know how things really ran.He lived his life right out to the edge. He had encountered death at various times in his life, both personally and in his family. He seems he welcomed the combat. He knew the risks. He took them anyway.RFK had to know what was behind the murder of his brother. He had to know this power would not allow him to become president. Yet, he ran anyway.Heroic or foolish?Excellent post once again Stan. To answer your question, I think it was both. Mostly heroic, but indeed somewhat foolish. But JFK did live on the edge, both personally and politically. We know now that JFK's efforts were definitely heroic, based on what has happened since his death. The changes that he tried to implement has taken control of the world. Big banking, big oil, war profiteering, CIA black ops etc. RFK was very much like his brother, maybe even more of a risk taker politically. Once again, his efforts were both heroic and foolish. Like JFK though, mostly heroic.

[Alec]

That is a very interesting question.I believe in the documentary "The Men Who Killed Kennedy", one man was 100% sure that JFK knew that there was going to be a possible attempt on his life. I'm not sure, but I am almost.Also, many people use Jackie Kennedy's quote, "I want to show THEM what THEY'VE done..." as evidence that she knew there was more than one assassin. If this is true, then maybe John discussed the possibility of an assassination with Jackie at some time.EDIT: You have to wonder if JFK knew that the route has been changed beforehand. I always wonder if JFK saw the open windows of the TSBD and other buildings and knew something may be up. He had visited Miami a few weeks beforehand, and I am sure he made many other visits. He would know that the Secret Service would have closed every window. I just ponder if he even took notice to that.I am not an expert on this subject, but those are just a few things that popped into my mind regarding this topic.

[jfkanon]

"He told me that the message was coming through that Khrushchev had agreed to dismantle and withdraw the missiles under adequate supervision and inspection; that everything was going to work out satisfactorily; and that Mr. Khrushchev wanted to send his best wishes to the President and to me.It was quite a different meeting from the night before. I went back to the White House and talked to the President for a long time. While I was there, he placed telephone calls to former Presidents Truman and Eisenhower. As I was leaving, he said, making reference to Abraham Lincoln, "This is the night I should go to the theater." I said, "If you go, I want to go with you." As I closed the door, he was seated at the desk writing a letter to Mrs. Anderson. . . ."From Robert F. Kennedy, Thirteen Days: A Memoir of the Missile Crisis.(Mrs. Anderson was the widow of the U.S. pilot shot down during the cuban missile crisis)

[Bob]

jfkanon wrote:"He told me that the message was coming through that Khrushchev had agreed to dismantle and withdraw the missiles under adequate supervision and inspection; that everything was going to work out satisfactorily; and that Mr. Khrushchev wanted to send his best wishes to the President and to me.It was quite a different meeting from the night before. I went back to the White House and talked to the President for a long time. While I was there, he placed telephone calls to former Presidents Truman and Eisenhower. As I was leaving, he said, making reference to Abraham Lincoln, "This is the night I should go to the theater." I said, "If you go, I want to go with you." As I closed the door, he was seated at the desk writing a letter to Mrs. Anderson. . . ."From Robert F. Kennedy, Thirteen Days: A Memoir of the Missile Crisis.(Mrs. Anderson was the widow of the U.S. pilot shot down during the cuban missile crisis)I will say this one again, JFK actions during the Cuban Missile Crisis, was as good as it gets in terms of leadership. The joint chiefs wanted to invade Cuba, as did the CIA. Allen Dulles set up JFK for failure in the Bay of Pigs episode, and it was hoped (by the CIA and joint chiefs) that JFK would save face and invade Cuba shortly thereafter. But JFK realized he was set up. He also saw through the Operation Northwoods plan presented in March of 1962, which called for a plan VERY similar to the events of 9/11. EVERY member of the joint chiefs supported that plan, as did Dulles and the Bu$h boys, both Prescott and Poppy. JFK refused to implement the plan, unlike Poppy's son Dumbya on 9/11/2001. JFK also refused to listen to the joint chiefs during the actual Cuban Missile Crisis, where if he had, WWIII would have been started, as well as a nuclear exchange betwwen the Soviet Union and the United States. I will say this again as well, please watch the film Thirteen Days. It is a fantastic film, and it points out the tremendous pressure JFK and RFK were under from both the joint chiefs and the CIA regarding that situation.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSA7Evcy7iE

[Bob]

Stan wrote:Bob, In "13 Days" there is line I will never forget.JFK is being pressured from all sides to invade Cuban and told he and the country would be viewed as cowards if he did not.He listens and dismisses the meeting, if I recall correctly. After everyone is gone, he is alone with Bobby.Pensively he says to his brother, "When a man abandons his own judgment, well, there's a dishonor in that."I've no idea if Kennedy actually said that, but his actions during that crisis certainly did.Indeed. Just imagine George W. Bu$h as President during that time. We would just be this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hzv0TSSDgU

[Phil Dragoo]

Stan, the short answer is, "No."Dulles later remarked haughtily, "That little Kennedy--he thought he was some kind of god."JFK put Cabot Lodge in Nam and gave the green light to removing the Diem brothers--when Lodge ran with Nixon in 60 and proved capable of audaciously acting independent of POTUS.Double Cross is the Giancana book describing the love in the room after Father Joe had told the powers, "Just deliver Chicago and you've got a friend in the White House--" and then along comes Bobby with his loppers.Oil men and their depletion allowance; steel men and their prices--One additional raid to remove the three T-33s might have meant success--so Castro survives, and has more access to JFK than the Brigade.Shatter in a million pieces the outfit that was making and breaking governments for decades?Was he tone deaf to the Bolden-described attitude in the Secret Service?He saw Seven Days in May and told a friend it could happen if a president made a Bay of Pigs mistake three times--Douglass in JFKU cites a minimum of five such moves.And he chose LBJ and protected Hoover, but talked of removing them before it was done.In sum, he made enemies wholesale and dealt with them retail.And now he belongs to the ages.

[Pennyworth]

Good evening all,the speech JFK wrote that got him murderedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dOOFB8fs38

[Bob]

Pennyworth wrote:Good evening all,the speech JFK wrote that got him murderedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dOOFB8fs38The speech was a classic no doubt, but JFK had many like that, like the one at American University in the summer of 1963.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG2PwhT0 ... relatedBut it wasn't words that caused JFK to be murdered. It was his policies. Policies like ending U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Policies like not invading Cuba. Policies like breaking the CIA into 1,000 pieces. Policies like NOT listening to the joint chiefs (like with Operation Northwoods or the Cuban Missile Crisis). Policies like the changes he was making to the Federal Reserve. Policies like making big oil paying it's fair share in the oil depletion allowance. It was policies like those that made the events of 11/22/1963 happen.

[jfkanon]

You can judge a man by the quality of his enemies. Kennedy's enemies were immoral sociopaths and psychopaths who enjoyed profiting from mass murder -- people with such a warped view of right and wrong that they were infuriated by anyone who prevented them from instigating murder. There seems to sometimes be an assumption that if JFK had only been smarter, he would willingly have colluded with his enemies to do what was harmful to his country in order to save his own skin. This is entirely inconsistent with his actions throughout his life.Incidentally, I've often wanted to see in writing Joseph Kennedy's alleged promise to the mafia. I know it's been repeated so much that it's widely accepted as fact. Maybe it did happen, but I'm suspicious of any statement if the original source is a psychopathic mobster with a warped sense of reality.

[Dealey Joe]

I believe it was Rose who held the famiy together and taught her children respect.I look at them as probably a perfect family because of herI think they lived life to the fullest of course they were a wealthy family. Money was obvious not a problem so I cannot imagine a life like that.might make you think you were invincible.