James Files...possible patsy?

[Bob]

I did a little reflecting today as I walked the shores of Lake Michigan. We all know the Lee Harvey Oswald was used as the patsy for JFK's murder. As I've said before, I think there were a number of patsy possibilities for David Atlee Phillips to use. One obviously was Oswald. Two others that I can think of were Jimmy Files and Chauncey Holt. Maybe Charles Harrelson as well. Let's look at my theory now. Jimmy Files took Johnny Roselli to a breakfast meeting the morning of the assassination to meet Jack Ruby, so Roselli could find out the exact route of the motorcade, plus get fakes badges and other information. The other information would be key. As in...no Secret Service agents on the rear of JFK's limo, like was normally the case. For instance, in JFK's motorcade in Tampa, shortly before the trip to Dallas, there were two Secret Service guys on the rear of JFK's limo. This would be key information, because a shot from the rear would be very difficult in Dealey Plaza if both Secret Service guys were on the back of the limo. But by NOT being on the back of the limo, this scenario would allow Chuck Nicoletti and anyone else (Mac Wallace?) to shoot from the rear in Dealey Plaza. That would also mean that certain Secret Service people and certain people in the CIA, like Phillips, were involved in this conspiracy. SS people like Emory Roberts, Roy Kellerman and Bill Greer. Even with that information, the CIA had to make sure they got JFK in Dallas that day. That is why Files was positioned where he was. To make sure JFK didn't get out of Dealey Plaza alive. In the aftermath, Oswald was named as the killer of both JFK and Officer Tippit. Oswald was the PATSY. But Files also could have been used as one, if Phillips wanted to go in that direction. Files was in Dealey Plaza. I'm sure that the FBI would have found several "witnesses" that would have placed him there. Plus,Tippit's real killer tried to give Jimmy the weapon he used to kill Tippit at Jimmy's motel. Why? I think he was told to by Phillips. Phillips and company were still trying to determine who they would use as a patsy and how they would tell the public how JFK was murdered. It ended up being Oswald and the 6th floor of the TSBD. But it could have been Files. That would be ironic, because Jimmy actually shot JFK, while Oswald never pulled a trigger that day.

[kenmurray]

Good reflections on your part Bob. I like it. Do you think Oswald went to the Texas theater to meet his "handler" Phillips but Phillips didn't show up because he was setting LHO for the fall?

[Dealey Joe]

Hay you sound like a detective Bob.excellent.

[Bob]

Thanks Gents. Coincidentally, Phillips was the CIA controller for both Files and Oswald. I think this was planned with various locations for the assassination. That being Love Field, Dealey Plaza and the Trade Mart. I think there was also a group of possible patsies. Once it was determined that Dealey Plaza would be used, the list of patsies grew shorter. Ken, I do think Oswald went to the Texas Theater to meet Phillips. Obviously that didn't happen and Oswald was arrested instead. However, I still think Phillips was at the midnight press conference that night for Oswald as sort of a signal to Oswald to not blow his cover. We also don't know what Oswald said behind closed doors during his interrogation, because no one took notes or taped the conversation. Yeah right! A guy is accused of killing the President of the United States and no one took notes or taped the interview. Sorry...not believable. The reason why they said they didn't have notes or tape is because Oswald could have told them who he REALLY was and who he worked for. That would be a FBI informant and a CIA operative.

[Pasquale DiFabrizio]

Bob wrote:Thanks Gents. Coincidentally, Phillips was the CIA controller for both Files and Oswald. I think this was planned with various locations for the assassination. That being Love Field, Dealey Plaza and the Trade Mart. I think there was also a group of possible patsies. Once it was determined that Dealey Plaza would be used, the list of patsies grew shorter. Ken, I do think Oswald went to the Texas Theater to meet Phillips. Obviously that didn't happen and Oswald was arrested instead. However, I still think Phillips was at the midnight press conference that night for Oswald as sort of a signal to Oswald to not blow his cover. We also don't know what Oswald said behind closed doors during his interrogation, because no one took notes or taped the conversation. Yeah right! A guy is accused of killing the President of the United States and no one took notes or taped the interview. Sorry...not believable. The reason why they said they didn't have notes or tape is because Oswald could have told them who he REALLY was and who he worked for. That would be a FBI informant and a CIA operative.Very good, Bob.The only thing I want to add is that there is a reason why they told Chauncey Holt and Harrelson to just hang out in the area. Why? It's for the reason you said. They were possible patsy's. I think framing Oswald ALONE was a work in progress. "They" couldn't possibly know who had pictures or film in that plaza, at least not immediately. Although they had the plaza controlled as best they could, they didn't have ABSOLUTE control, so, it would have been beneficial for them to keep as many patsies available to them as possible. Then, of course, as it was a "work in progress," in my opinion, they encountered little glitches, like, for example, Files NOT accepting the weapon that Tippit's murderer offered him. Had Files accepted that weapon, they could have had more "evidence" regarding all the wounds and shots. They would have had no need at all to make up the magic bullet theory, at least not the way we know it today, because they could have said that Files HELPED Oswald.I believe that it was a work in progress because Murphy's Law always applies in operations. When I work a surveillance case, for example, I try to remain as UNSEEN as possible. I can't control some jerk coming up to my vehicle and bringing attention to me. For example, why did it take the cops over an HOUR to find Holt, Harrelson and the other man in that freight car? Didn't Holt and them sit it out in that freight car for at least that long? Are they kidding? That would have been the FIRST place I would have looked for an assassin or assassins had a bunch of people or information indicated to me that a shot came from the knoll. That would have been the FIRST place...seriously. Where ELSE would they have looked first? BEHIND a rail car but not IN it? Behind a parked car? I think they were keeping possible patsies on hold (not to the potential-patsies' knowledge, of course) for potential use. How would they have figured that Files would NOT have accepted the gun used to kill Tippit? He already had other weapons that were used in the assassination. He simply refused the gun offered to him by Tippit's murderer. What would have Tippit's murderer have done? FORCE it on him? Files would have shot him or something. That simple little gesture on the part of Files is, in my opinion, one of the reasons he wasn't killed that day, or arrested and THEN killed like Oswald. Set-ups like that are THAT subtle. All Files had to do was accept that weapon at the hotel room from Tippit's murderer, and they could have TOTALLY set him up. It didn't work, and they had to change the details of the plan.

[Phil Dragoo]

Gentlemen, this is fruitful examination of the fluidity of the situation. Tactically Jimmy Files served as the backup/backstop of the crossfire and provided a potential plan B patsy.His refusal of the piece shows he was very street smart; as also demonstrated by his comment vis-a-vis Ed Hoffman's confabulated sighting, “Why would I give my weapon to somebody. I'm not going to do that.”Did not Jimmy mention someone near him flashing Secret Service credentials to the first of the people approaching his position after the shots.Weitzman was dosed for four years with 1000mg daily of the thorazine medication of the day (when 800 was the standard) having reported being stopped by such a bogus Secret Service character.See this Nose Cone excerpt from a quick screen-length scroll-down:Deputy Constable Weitzman told the Warren Commission he encountered "other officers, Secret Service as well" on the grassy knoll. In 1975, he told reporter Michael Canfield the man he saw produced credentials and told him everything was under control. He said the man had dark hair, was of medium height, and was wearing a light windbreaker. When shown photos of Frank Sturgis and Bernard Barker, Weitzman immediately pointed at Barker, saying, "Yes that's him." Just to make sure, Canfield asked, "Was this the man who produced the Secret Service credentials?" Weitzman responded, "Yes, that's the same man."Dallas patrolman J. M. Smith also ran up the grassy knoll. At the top, he smelled gunpowder. Encountering a man, he pulled his pistol from his holster. "Just as I did, he showed me he was a Secret Service agent … he saw me coming with my pistol and right away he showed me who he was."In the mid-70s, Dallas police sergeant David Harkness told a House committee, "There were some Secret Service agents there – on the grassy knoll – but I did not get them identified. They told me they were Secret Service."According to a Secret Service report in the National Archives, "All the Secret Service agents assigned to the motorcade stayed with the motorcade all the way to the hospital, none remained at the scene of the shooting."http://noseconenews.blogspot.com/2006/1 ... gle.htmlWe see that Barker was used to remove JFK—and then was a “Watergate burglar” causing the downfall of Nixon—two presidents from opposing parties taken out by an operative of the same agency, CIA.And Barker was an associate of Sturgis, certainly mentioned in conjunction with the JFK assassination (and the Watergate trap) whether he was there or not—and we know Hunt was there in some capacity—he admitted as much—then tried to throw the blame on yet another president, LBJ.Jimmy's people went down: Giancana, Roselli, Nicoletti—and DeMohrenschildt on the same day as Nicoletti.Braden/Brading arrested at the Dal-Tex (where Roselli/Nicoletti were), while LBJ's man's fingerprint was found on the box of the sniper's lair on the Sixth Floor.Not everyone is dead—and Jimmy cannot tell every detail.Consider this: he was an operative, in fact, the most lethal one perhaps. And his voice now is an effective reminder to any president since 1963 that the CIA is the boss: not the pols, not the generals, not the mob, not the oil men (see BP).The Company may be letting Jimmy live for just this message.Any less a man would have just burned up like an undersized fuse.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIX0ZDqDljA

[dankbaar]

James Files did not have the background to serve as patsy.Moreover, the organizers did not even know about his participation, as he was not supposed to shoot.Wim

[Bob]

dankbaar wrote:James Files did not have the background to serve as patsy.Moreover, the organizers did not even know about his participation, as he was not supposed to shoot.WimWim, you certainly know more than I do about this subject, but I do see similarities to Oswald. Files had a military history, just like Oswald. Files had connections to the mob, as did Oswald. Also both Oswald and Files had the same controller in the CIA...David Atlee Phillips. In terms of the organizers, one of whom was Phillips, they at least knew he was in Dallas to assist in making sure the assassination went on as planned. Roselli was also CIA and they drove back and forth together the morning of the assassination to meet Ruby. Roselli then told Nicoletti he didn't want to take part in the assassination, at least in terms of being a shooter. Nicoletti then gives the assignment to Files.

[Jsnow915]

Bob...I think Oswalds Russia trip and his Hands off of Cuba thing was his nail in his coffin...from any info I've gotten from here,Files kept a low profile...even with his mob ties they wouldnt touch him,because Hoover would look stupid...saying there was no mafia...at least thats my take on it.

[Bob]

Jsnow915 wrote:Bob...I think Oswalds Russia trip and his Hands off of Cuba thing was his nail in his coffin...from any info I've gotten from here,Files kept a low profile...even with his mob ties they wouldnt touch him,because Hoover would look stupid...saying there was no mafia...at least thats my take on it. John...I agree the reasons you suggested make sense in making LHO the patsy. In terms of the mob ties, I don't think they would be brought up regarding Files, just like they didn't bring up LHO's mob connections.