Now, I am one to definitely believe Oswald was completely set up for the shooting in Dealey. Definitely, more than 3 shots were fired. However, I read many's theories, and yet most of them involve like 6+assassins.
There has to be a limit to assassins and bullets fired. To fit the theory of
"professional" rifleman, they can only miss a certain amount of times. Seeing as they were going for a headshot, anything other than that could be considered a miss. The classic conspiracy theory involves 1 throat wound, 1 back wound, and 2 headshots to kennedy. Connally is typically said to of been hit with 1 bullet. Then we have 1 miss definitely. That is 6 shots.
Many theories include up to 14 shots! I definitely believe there to be a conspiracy... but 14 shots?? Considering that at least 1/16th of the witnesses in Dealey were correct in their hearing testimony, how can there be more than even 8 shots?
I know that they were definitely trying to pin it all from behind, and on top of that, they have a certain limit to bullets from the patsy rifle. A 5 shot magazine maximum. I personally believe the Carcano was used in the killing. 3 shots being fired from it truly. We all know that at LEAST 4 shots were fired. But we also know that the Tague wound, and the SBT smell of suspicion.
Now... in regards to the throat wound... The classic theory goes that it was an entry wound from the front. However, we know that the knoll shooter was to only fire if necessary. I suppose to South Knoll is a possibility, but, no one heard a shot from there. And why would they have a gunman there if there was one on the Picket fence "Grassy Knoll"?
If there was more than 10 shots fired... why did the shooters miss so bad? It doesn't seem to me that the expert rifleman scenario fits the more than reasonable amount of shots fired scenario.
I just was wondering... What all your personal opinions of amount of shots were, and what your personal opinion is on where they hit and or missed.
Me: 6 shots. 1 to JFK's back, 2 to the head. 1 to Connally(wrist hit by same bullet as JFK), 2 misses (Hit Elm Street, and Main wounding Tague).
Truly.... how many shooters?
Re: Truly.... how many shooters?
Tommy Bullgotti wrote:Now, I am one to definitely believe Oswald was completely set up for the shooting in Dealey. Definitely, more than 3 shots were fired. However, I read many's theories, and yet most of them involve like 6+assassins.There has to be a limit to assassins and bullets fired. To fit the theory of "professional" rifleman, they can only miss a certain amount of times. Seeing as they were going for a headshot, anything other than that could be considered a miss. The classic conspiracy theory involves 1 throat wound, 1 back wound, and 2 headshots to kennedy. Connally is typically said to of been hit with 1 bullet. Then we have 1 miss definitely. That is 6 shots.Many theories include up to 14 shots! I definitely believe there to be a conspiracy... but 14 shots?? Considering that at least 1/16th of the witnesses in Dealey were correct in their hearing testimony, how can there be more than even 8 shots?I know that they were definitely trying to pin it all from behind, and on top of that, they have a certain limit to bullets from the patsy rifle. A 5 shot magazine maximum. I personally believe the Carcano was used in the killing. 3 shots being fired from it truly. We all know that at LEAST 4 shots were fired. But we also know that the Tague wound, and the SBT smell of suspicion. Now... in regards to the throat wound... The classic theory goes that it was an entry wound from the front. However, we know that the knoll shooter was to only fire if necessary. I suppose to South Knoll is a possibility, but, no one heard a shot from there. And why would they have a gunman there if there was one on the Picket fence "Grassy Knoll"? If there was more than 10 shots fired... why did the shooters miss so bad? It doesn't seem to me that the expert rifleman scenario fits the more than reasonable amount of shots fired scenario.I just was wondering... What all your personal opinions of amount of shots were, and what your personal opinion is on where they hit and or missed.Me: 6 shots. 1 to JFK's back, 2 to the head. 1 to Connally(wrist hit by same bullet as JFK), 2 misses (Hit Elm Street, and Main wounding Tague).
Hello Fellow Poster Tommy!
I agree with other theorists that Oswald's shot didn't make it..it was a longshot...if there were more than 10 shots why didn't some others in the car get hit????I go for the grassy knoll and the sick sob's that made confessions after all these years..they were products of mind control...see my other posts please....Posner who wrote Case Closed is waaay offf....
Hello Fellow Poster Tommy!
I agree with other theorists that Oswald's shot didn't make it..it was a longshot...if there were more than 10 shots why didn't some others in the car get hit????I go for the grassy knoll and the sick sob's that made confessions after all these years..they were products of mind control...see my other posts please....Posner who wrote Case Closed is waaay offf....
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
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Mark Johansson
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Re: Truly.... how many shooters?
Tommy Bullgotti wrote:Now, I am one to definitely believe Oswald was completely set up for the shooting in Dealey. Definitely, more than 3 shots were fired. However, I read many's theories, and yet most of them involve like 6+assassins.There has to be a limit to assassins and bullets fired. To fit the theory of "professional" rifleman, they can only miss a certain amount of times. Seeing as they were going for a headshot, anything other than that could be considered a miss. The classic conspiracy theory involves 1 throat wound, 1 back wound, and 2 headshots to kennedy. Connally is typically said to of been hit with 1 bullet. Then we have 1 miss definitely. That is 6 shots.Many theories include up to 14 shots! I definitely believe there to be a conspiracy... but 14 shots?? Considering that at least 1/16th of the witnesses in Dealey were correct in their hearing testimony, how can there be more than even 8 shots?I know that they were definitely trying to pin it all from behind, and on top of that, they have a certain limit to bullets from the patsy rifle. A 5 shot magazine maximum. I personally believe the Carcano was used in the killing. 3 shots being fired from it truly. We all know that at LEAST 4 shots were fired. But we also know that the Tague wound, and the SBT smell of suspicion. Now... in regards to the throat wound... The classic theory goes that it was an entry wound from the front. However, we know that the knoll shooter was to only fire if necessary. I suppose to South Knoll is a possibility, but, no one heard a shot from there. And why would they have a gunman there if there was one on the Picket fence "Grassy Knoll"? If there was more than 10 shots fired... why did the shooters miss so bad? It doesn't seem to me that the expert rifleman scenario fits the more than reasonable amount of shots fired scenario.I just was wondering... What all your personal opinions of amount of shots were, and what your personal opinion is on where they hit and or missed.Me: 6 shots. 1 to JFK's back, 2 to the head. 1 to Connally(wrist hit by same bullet as JFK), 2 misses (Hit Elm Street, and Main wounding Tague).
Hi Kevin,
I would estimate that there were at least 7-8 shooters in Dealey Plaza. What I´m about to tell you is pure speculation and it´s not in the right order
1st shot:
It came from the Dal-Tex building, missed the car completely and hit the south curb on main street. James Tague was hit by flying concret.
2nd shot:
Struck Kennedy in the back.
3rd shot:
Gov. Connally was hit by a bullet from the western window of the TSBD.
4th shot:
A bullet from the Record County building caused an alleged bullet hole in the floor pan of the car.
5th shot:
Malcolm Summers encounted a man who tried to hide a rifle under his coat. This is were the 2nd bullet casing was found. This is also the place were you can see the co-called 5th man in the Moorman photo.
6th shot:
This bullet came from the so-called badgeman. It missed the car and made a trace in the grass on the opposite side of Elm street.
7th & 8th shot:
A bullet from the TSBD struck Kennedy in the back of the head simultaneously with a bullet from the grassy knoll (James Files). It made Kennedy´s head move forward and then violent backward. A fragment of the exploded bullet made an exit hole in Kennedy´s throat.
9th shot:
Made a nick in the chrome of the windshield. This bullet came either from the TSBD or the Dal-Tex building.
Mark
Hi Kevin,
I would estimate that there were at least 7-8 shooters in Dealey Plaza. What I´m about to tell you is pure speculation and it´s not in the right order
1st shot:
It came from the Dal-Tex building, missed the car completely and hit the south curb on main street. James Tague was hit by flying concret.
2nd shot:
Struck Kennedy in the back.
3rd shot:
Gov. Connally was hit by a bullet from the western window of the TSBD.
4th shot:
A bullet from the Record County building caused an alleged bullet hole in the floor pan of the car.
5th shot:
Malcolm Summers encounted a man who tried to hide a rifle under his coat. This is were the 2nd bullet casing was found. This is also the place were you can see the co-called 5th man in the Moorman photo.
6th shot:
This bullet came from the so-called badgeman. It missed the car and made a trace in the grass on the opposite side of Elm street.
7th & 8th shot:
A bullet from the TSBD struck Kennedy in the back of the head simultaneously with a bullet from the grassy knoll (James Files). It made Kennedy´s head move forward and then violent backward. A fragment of the exploded bullet made an exit hole in Kennedy´s throat.
9th shot:
Made a nick in the chrome of the windshield. This bullet came either from the TSBD or the Dal-Tex building.
Mark
Kevin Fisher wrote:Tommy -- I think that you have it about right. I would go with 3 shooters and 6 shots.If I can add here, that I think that, while he is guilty by accessory to the crime, L H Oswald did NOT fire one shot. His rifle was used, but he was not the shooter of that rifle.
In rebuttal to Gerald Posner's 300 plus page Odyssey Idiocy Case Closed,
Oswald was involved as a gun but not as a patsy because he didn't expect to be caught, and that is why Ruby had him blown away. Ruby's excuse? "He shot the President." There was no need as Os was in protective custody Later Ruby was. pleading with people to take him to Washington or somewhere safe as he was real scared of some people...
If Oswald acted alone, as Posner posed, then got caught and was in custody why would anyone need to blow him away? Posner needs also to address the cover-up..I see he worked on Wall St. as an attorney.. Any school child can figure this one out...Someone didn't want him to talk...maybe this goes for Posner also
In rebuttal to Gerald Posner's 300 plus page Odyssey Idiocy Case Closed,
Oswald was involved as a gun but not as a patsy because he didn't expect to be caught, and that is why Ruby had him blown away. Ruby's excuse? "He shot the President." There was no need as Os was in protective custody Later Ruby was. pleading with people to take him to Washington or somewhere safe as he was real scared of some people...
If Oswald acted alone, as Posner posed, then got caught and was in custody why would anyone need to blow him away? Posner needs also to address the cover-up..I see he worked on Wall St. as an attorney.. Any school child can figure this one out...Someone didn't want him to talk...maybe this goes for Posner also
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Tommy Bullgotti
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Tommy -- I completely forgot.....remember to account for the dent on the inside frame of the windshield, and the hit ON the windshield of the limo. Heck, maybe we need a few more shots. What do you think?
Well... if some people believe that the "throat" wound could be caused by an exiting fragment from the exploading round that hit JFK's temple(I personally don't believe that). Then it is entirely possible that the windshield crack(hole) and chrome top could of been caused by a headshot fragment. From the front or behind.
Something conspiracy theorists have to see... These are hired hand guys. They knew what they were doing, and what they had to do. There has to be a reasonable amount of hits. Too many misses does not fit the "hit team" scenario. It is entirely possible that more than two shots missed the car. But, there has to be a likely location to the source of these misses, and at least some sort of basis for them.
If we count the 100% for sure misses. We know that there is at the very least 1. The Tague miss. This, no matter what, is a missed shot. Anyone who says otherwise needs to visit Dealey Plaza and see where the nest is compared to that shot. It is a mile off. No fragment could tavel the distance, and still have enough force to penetrate the concrete, let alone leave a noticable wound to Tague's cheek.
I believe in Marr's book, he cites a few witnesses who said they saw a bullet strike Elm street. Something similar is seen in the Zapruder Film. This one is not 100%, but is probably about 75% chance that is is a miss. That's two.
The windshield could very well be a miss. But from where? Seeing as the hole in the windshield is not visible in the Altgen's photo which is taken at around Zap.255... then this miss has not yet occured. In viewing the film, there are noticeable reactions at around 285-303. Most noticeable is the driver Greer, and his headsnap back to Kennedy(as if waiting for that headshot). This I believe is the most proof of another missed shot. Personally I believe this miss at Zap.285, was fired from the Dal-Tex building, barely missed JFK, and hit Main St. This being the only round fired from the Dal-Tex(my opinion). This could be the windshield miss as well, but highly unlikely, seeing as the bullet would come awfully close to Greer. And if this missed shot hit the windshield, then Greer would not turn around to see JFK. If Greer was indeed waiting for the headshot, then if one missed just to his right hitting the windshield, then we would see a noticeable reaction. Instead we see him look to see if the headshot has occured yet.
As to the chrome, it is possible to be a missed shot, however, if this missed shot came from the Dal-Tex it would have to happen between 285-320. If it was the miss that happened at 285, then we would have to erase the Tague wounding as the Dal-Tex shot, because at fr.285, the line of trajectory fits perfectly with this location. It is higly unlikely that it occured post 313, simply because if the shooter was as I believe(only there to shoot if the TSBD snipers miss), then he would not fired a second shot, after JFK was already struck in the head.
Personally, I think the windshield and chrome damages were caused by fragments from the headshot.
As to the badgeman. Yes I still have not decided whether he is human or not. But I will say this, if he is human, he cannot possibly be standing behind the retaining wall, because he simply looks too small in a full copy of the photo. He also may not be behind the picket fence, because the fenceline runs behin the wall, and is about 5 feet tall. We see about half of badgemans body in the photo. We cannot see the fence because the retaining wall is in the way. The only way we could see half his body is if he was standing on something that elevated him about 3-4 feet. I am not in any way supporting Mr. Myers' finds, nor the hogwash discovery channel special. This is just from my basic observations. If badgeman is truly the an assassin, I would be greatly surprised.
The Records Building sniper is a definite possibility. However, who was it? Saul? Hemming? And also I have never heard testimony of this hole in the floorpan Mark... Please, tell me what you know.
155---Miss, hit Elm Street.---TSBD
223---Hit JFK in the back, exited throat, hit Connally's wrist.---TSBD
234-238---Hit Connally in the back/chest/thigh.----TSBD West
2??----Missed, hit floorpan---Records Building
285----Missed, Tague wounding.----Dal-Tex
30?----Missed hit grass opposite of Elm.----Badgeman
313---Headshot #1----TSBD
314-316---Headshot #2---Grassy Knoll
32?---Miss, chrome and or windshield---Dal-Tex
Thats 10 right there. From 6 different people. Keep in mind, a Patsy is being blamed for this crime. 1 man, with a 5 shot magazine. They want to keep forensics to a minimal. They want ballistics to fit the lone man theory, and they want to create confusion.
A.J. Millican and J.C. Price both stated an 8 shot series. They are the ones who testified to the most amount of shots. The rest ranged from 1-2-3-4-5-6
This scenario also destroys the "hit team" scenario. Now don't get me wrong, an assassination has a large margin of error. That's one of the main reasons one man couldn't pull it off. But 4 misses. That is almost as many bullets that Oswald's weapon could hold. They want to create confusion, but at the same time, want to get the job done with minimal problems.
Honestly, it is hard for me not to say,
155---Miss, hit Elm.---TSBD
223---Hit JFK back and Connally's wrist---TSBD
234-238---Hit Connally in the back, chest, thigh---TSBD West
285---Miss hit Main wounded Tague----Dal-Tex
313---Hit JFK headshot #1---TSBD
314-316---Hit JFK headshot #2---Grassy Knoll
To be completely Honest, I would believe the SBT. The only thing I cannot believe about it, is after transversing Kennedy's body without touching bone nor any major muscles, it started tumbling, then went on to hit Connally, smash inches of his 5th rib, exit the chest, then for some awkward reason tumble into his wrist(which is nowhere near his chest until post 234), smash the wrist without losing but 3 fragments or so, and then puncturing the thigh. Out of all that, the thing that gets me is the wrist. It simply could not shatter the wrist and remain mostly intact, let alone hit the wrist without tumbling off the TSBD trajectory.
Heck another theory could be that the back wound to JFK could of been fired from the Dal-Tex building, hitting him low like the official autopsy report shows and witness testimony. Then exited the neck, and went on to hit the Chrome and or windshield. And then a shot from the TSBD Oswald window hit Connally and did all the damage to him. Heck theres just so many possibilities out there, I won't type any more.
In all, I can see that there may have been more than 6 shots fired. But I find it unlikely to have more than 2 misses and more than 3 assassins.
Well... if some people believe that the "throat" wound could be caused by an exiting fragment from the exploading round that hit JFK's temple(I personally don't believe that). Then it is entirely possible that the windshield crack(hole) and chrome top could of been caused by a headshot fragment. From the front or behind.
Something conspiracy theorists have to see... These are hired hand guys. They knew what they were doing, and what they had to do. There has to be a reasonable amount of hits. Too many misses does not fit the "hit team" scenario. It is entirely possible that more than two shots missed the car. But, there has to be a likely location to the source of these misses, and at least some sort of basis for them.
If we count the 100% for sure misses. We know that there is at the very least 1. The Tague miss. This, no matter what, is a missed shot. Anyone who says otherwise needs to visit Dealey Plaza and see where the nest is compared to that shot. It is a mile off. No fragment could tavel the distance, and still have enough force to penetrate the concrete, let alone leave a noticable wound to Tague's cheek.
I believe in Marr's book, he cites a few witnesses who said they saw a bullet strike Elm street. Something similar is seen in the Zapruder Film. This one is not 100%, but is probably about 75% chance that is is a miss. That's two.
The windshield could very well be a miss. But from where? Seeing as the hole in the windshield is not visible in the Altgen's photo which is taken at around Zap.255... then this miss has not yet occured. In viewing the film, there are noticeable reactions at around 285-303. Most noticeable is the driver Greer, and his headsnap back to Kennedy(as if waiting for that headshot). This I believe is the most proof of another missed shot. Personally I believe this miss at Zap.285, was fired from the Dal-Tex building, barely missed JFK, and hit Main St. This being the only round fired from the Dal-Tex(my opinion). This could be the windshield miss as well, but highly unlikely, seeing as the bullet would come awfully close to Greer. And if this missed shot hit the windshield, then Greer would not turn around to see JFK. If Greer was indeed waiting for the headshot, then if one missed just to his right hitting the windshield, then we would see a noticeable reaction. Instead we see him look to see if the headshot has occured yet.
As to the chrome, it is possible to be a missed shot, however, if this missed shot came from the Dal-Tex it would have to happen between 285-320. If it was the miss that happened at 285, then we would have to erase the Tague wounding as the Dal-Tex shot, because at fr.285, the line of trajectory fits perfectly with this location. It is higly unlikely that it occured post 313, simply because if the shooter was as I believe(only there to shoot if the TSBD snipers miss), then he would not fired a second shot, after JFK was already struck in the head.
Personally, I think the windshield and chrome damages were caused by fragments from the headshot.
As to the badgeman. Yes I still have not decided whether he is human or not. But I will say this, if he is human, he cannot possibly be standing behind the retaining wall, because he simply looks too small in a full copy of the photo. He also may not be behind the picket fence, because the fenceline runs behin the wall, and is about 5 feet tall. We see about half of badgemans body in the photo. We cannot see the fence because the retaining wall is in the way. The only way we could see half his body is if he was standing on something that elevated him about 3-4 feet. I am not in any way supporting Mr. Myers' finds, nor the hogwash discovery channel special. This is just from my basic observations. If badgeman is truly the an assassin, I would be greatly surprised.
The Records Building sniper is a definite possibility. However, who was it? Saul? Hemming? And also I have never heard testimony of this hole in the floorpan Mark... Please, tell me what you know.
155---Miss, hit Elm Street.---TSBD
223---Hit JFK in the back, exited throat, hit Connally's wrist.---TSBD
234-238---Hit Connally in the back/chest/thigh.----TSBD West
2??----Missed, hit floorpan---Records Building
285----Missed, Tague wounding.----Dal-Tex
30?----Missed hit grass opposite of Elm.----Badgeman
313---Headshot #1----TSBD
314-316---Headshot #2---Grassy Knoll
32?---Miss, chrome and or windshield---Dal-Tex
Thats 10 right there. From 6 different people. Keep in mind, a Patsy is being blamed for this crime. 1 man, with a 5 shot magazine. They want to keep forensics to a minimal. They want ballistics to fit the lone man theory, and they want to create confusion.
A.J. Millican and J.C. Price both stated an 8 shot series. They are the ones who testified to the most amount of shots. The rest ranged from 1-2-3-4-5-6
This scenario also destroys the "hit team" scenario. Now don't get me wrong, an assassination has a large margin of error. That's one of the main reasons one man couldn't pull it off. But 4 misses. That is almost as many bullets that Oswald's weapon could hold. They want to create confusion, but at the same time, want to get the job done with minimal problems.
Honestly, it is hard for me not to say,
155---Miss, hit Elm.---TSBD
223---Hit JFK back and Connally's wrist---TSBD
234-238---Hit Connally in the back, chest, thigh---TSBD West
285---Miss hit Main wounded Tague----Dal-Tex
313---Hit JFK headshot #1---TSBD
314-316---Hit JFK headshot #2---Grassy Knoll
To be completely Honest, I would believe the SBT. The only thing I cannot believe about it, is after transversing Kennedy's body without touching bone nor any major muscles, it started tumbling, then went on to hit Connally, smash inches of his 5th rib, exit the chest, then for some awkward reason tumble into his wrist(which is nowhere near his chest until post 234), smash the wrist without losing but 3 fragments or so, and then puncturing the thigh. Out of all that, the thing that gets me is the wrist. It simply could not shatter the wrist and remain mostly intact, let alone hit the wrist without tumbling off the TSBD trajectory.
Heck another theory could be that the back wound to JFK could of been fired from the Dal-Tex building, hitting him low like the official autopsy report shows and witness testimony. Then exited the neck, and went on to hit the Chrome and or windshield. And then a shot from the TSBD Oswald window hit Connally and did all the damage to him. Heck theres just so many possibilities out there, I won't type any more.
In all, I can see that there may have been more than 6 shots fired. But I find it unlikely to have more than 2 misses and more than 3 assassins.
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Yes, Tommy, the "intact" bullet can mean only one thing -- that it was a plant, and, therefore, evidence of a conspiracy.
That bullet can only have been planted on the stretcher. No way could it do all that damage and remain in such good condition.
I do like your last scenario, with 6 shots. Seems to make the most sense.
That bullet can only have been planted on the stretcher. No way could it do all that damage and remain in such good condition.
I do like your last scenario, with 6 shots. Seems to make the most sense.
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm