The doctors are on record as saying that this is a wound of entry.
So where did the bullet go? Here's the theories:
(1) It was a sort of "ice missle", entering the body and "melting" inside the body.
(2) It hit the spinal column and deflected downward, where it was never retrived at autopsy. Remember, the doctors never did a pathological probe of the wounds. They never determined the paths of the bullets. And there is no record of X-rays that revealed no bullets in the body.
(3) It completely exited the body. Doctored autopsy photos hid an exit wound on the back. Dr Humes was told to omit this wound.
Scenario 2 above seems most likely, and JFK's arm and hand movement may be testimony to this, as the arms come up almost involuntarily, like a response to a nerve reaction as the bullet hits the spine.
The doctors all called this a wound of entry. For that alone, I have to believe that JFK was hit in the throat with a bullet shot from the front.
I don't see how you can describe it any other way.
Don't get hung up on where an exiting bullet may have gone, or why there is no exit wound on JFK's back.
Take the word of the doctors. They are the best evidence here.
And they all said that it was a wound of entry.
That should be enough.
JFK's throat wound
Take the word of the doctors. They are the best evidence here.
And they all said that it was a wound of entry.
That should be enough.
***********************
Haha, You measure with double standards. If we should take the words of the doctors (and to some extent I agree to that) we should also accept that the big gaping hole, the size of a fist, in the back of JFK's head, that all the doctors described, was an EXIT wound from a bullet from the front.
But where is that gaping hole in the lower right portion of JFK's head in the Warren Report?
Question: you are doctor with experience on bullet wounds, you see a tiny neat little round hole in a throat. What would you think first?
1) This is an entry wound of a small caliber bullet
2) This is an exit wound from a fragment of an explosive bullet that hit in the head.
Mind you, the doctors didn't know about about an explosive bullet, let alone a mercury bullet.
No, I don't blame the doctors at all. If it looks like duck, if it walks like a duck, if it sounds like duck, you're going to say it's a duck.
Wim
wim
And they all said that it was a wound of entry.
That should be enough.
***********************
Haha, You measure with double standards. If we should take the words of the doctors (and to some extent I agree to that) we should also accept that the big gaping hole, the size of a fist, in the back of JFK's head, that all the doctors described, was an EXIT wound from a bullet from the front.
But where is that gaping hole in the lower right portion of JFK's head in the Warren Report?
Question: you are doctor with experience on bullet wounds, you see a tiny neat little round hole in a throat. What would you think first?
1) This is an entry wound of a small caliber bullet
2) This is an exit wound from a fragment of an explosive bullet that hit in the head.
Mind you, the doctors didn't know about about an explosive bullet, let alone a mercury bullet.
No, I don't blame the doctors at all. If it looks like duck, if it walks like a duck, if it sounds like duck, you're going to say it's a duck.
Wim
wim
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Bruce Patrick Brychek
- Posts: 1306
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Response To Mr. Kevin Fisher:
Dear Mr. Kevin Fisher,
I enjoy your posts, I think you are a valued and great contributor to the JFK Forum, even when I totally disagree with you on a point such as this.
Kevin, of course I believe Jimmy totally, that is a given. But even he has told me, as others, everything was on a need to know basis, and the possibility of other shooters or another shooting team is certainly possible.
If shot from the front in the throat, what possible line of fire would line up with JFK"S throat wound ?
Since I believe that no bullet came through the front windshield, I also analyzed the angle from over the windshield ? I don't find that in the movies, videos, and pictures that I have analyzed.
Additionally, I am fairly well informed, but no certified expert, and have witnessed the effects of exploding bullets. Jimmy's statements about using a Mercury Tipped Hollow Point add up better in my Matrix Analysis of this point.
Was I next to Jimmy on 11.22.1963 ? No.
Can I irrefutably justify my position, and condemn yours ? No.
Kevin, you provide good points and counterpoints.
For example, my dear, respected, and trusted friend Wim Dankbaar argued with me and Jimmy for over three (3) years over the throat wound being an exit wound from schrapnel, from Jimmy's Mercury Tipped Hollow Point. In fact Wim shot me down in his book for Jimmy's and our position. I still bought him dinner and wine in Chicago when he showed me that I got blasted on this point. Just so you know that Wim and I don't always agree, and we both have probably changed positions on several points with each other over the years.
Anyway, after 3- 4 years of disagreeing, with Jimmy and myself, I think that it is safe to say that I helped win Wim over on the exit wound theory. Or at least I think that was our posture to my recollection after our last discussion on that point. Wim, correct me if we are in disagreement on the exit wound theory, please ?
Anyway, that diatribe was all about demonstrating to you, Kevin, that I enjoy good, fun, yet aggressive academic arguments. And I also do this with others, and the JFK Forum, in general. Another example is that I have blasted JFK'S personal life, and yet admire his efforts to get us out of Viet Nam. I know that this puts me at odds at times with Bob, who I highly respect. Under this vein of creating healthy debate based upon published authorities, I strongly played Devil's Advocate in the past by advancing Seymour Hirsh's attacks on JFK"S personal judgment in his book The Dark Side of Camelot.
Kevin, I'll get my notes out, and try to come back with more points. I do remember one argument was that Johnny Roselli was in the sewer. First, I could not see that line of fire. Second, I remember Jimmy's response when I told him some of his detractors said that Roselli, and no wet behind the ears kid, fired the front shot from the sewer, and Jimmy said something to the effect that the only way that you could get Johnny Roselli in a sewer in one of his fancy $ 3,000.00 pimp suits in broad daylight in Dallas in 1963 would be by shooting him first. And then even Johnny couldn't have made the shot dead.
Just as aside.
Respectfully,
Bruce Patrick Brychek.
I enjoy your posts, I think you are a valued and great contributor to the JFK Forum, even when I totally disagree with you on a point such as this.
Kevin, of course I believe Jimmy totally, that is a given. But even he has told me, as others, everything was on a need to know basis, and the possibility of other shooters or another shooting team is certainly possible.
If shot from the front in the throat, what possible line of fire would line up with JFK"S throat wound ?
Since I believe that no bullet came through the front windshield, I also analyzed the angle from over the windshield ? I don't find that in the movies, videos, and pictures that I have analyzed.
Additionally, I am fairly well informed, but no certified expert, and have witnessed the effects of exploding bullets. Jimmy's statements about using a Mercury Tipped Hollow Point add up better in my Matrix Analysis of this point.
Was I next to Jimmy on 11.22.1963 ? No.
Can I irrefutably justify my position, and condemn yours ? No.
Kevin, you provide good points and counterpoints.
For example, my dear, respected, and trusted friend Wim Dankbaar argued with me and Jimmy for over three (3) years over the throat wound being an exit wound from schrapnel, from Jimmy's Mercury Tipped Hollow Point. In fact Wim shot me down in his book for Jimmy's and our position. I still bought him dinner and wine in Chicago when he showed me that I got blasted on this point. Just so you know that Wim and I don't always agree, and we both have probably changed positions on several points with each other over the years.
Anyway, after 3- 4 years of disagreeing, with Jimmy and myself, I think that it is safe to say that I helped win Wim over on the exit wound theory. Or at least I think that was our posture to my recollection after our last discussion on that point. Wim, correct me if we are in disagreement on the exit wound theory, please ?
Anyway, that diatribe was all about demonstrating to you, Kevin, that I enjoy good, fun, yet aggressive academic arguments. And I also do this with others, and the JFK Forum, in general. Another example is that I have blasted JFK'S personal life, and yet admire his efforts to get us out of Viet Nam. I know that this puts me at odds at times with Bob, who I highly respect. Under this vein of creating healthy debate based upon published authorities, I strongly played Devil's Advocate in the past by advancing Seymour Hirsh's attacks on JFK"S personal judgment in his book The Dark Side of Camelot.
Kevin, I'll get my notes out, and try to come back with more points. I do remember one argument was that Johnny Roselli was in the sewer. First, I could not see that line of fire. Second, I remember Jimmy's response when I told him some of his detractors said that Roselli, and no wet behind the ears kid, fired the front shot from the sewer, and Jimmy said something to the effect that the only way that you could get Johnny Roselli in a sewer in one of his fancy $ 3,000.00 pimp suits in broad daylight in Dallas in 1963 would be by shooting him first. And then even Johnny couldn't have made the shot dead.
Just as aside.
Respectfully,
Bruce Patrick Brychek.
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Dissention and debate never bother me, Bruce.
In fact, I welcome it.
Throat wound? Doesn't line up with any position in the front?
JFK was turned towards the crowd on his right. It seems to me that would place him in line with a shot from the rightside. From exactly where, I'm not sure.
The throat wound occurs at the time JFK's arms raise up toward his face. I have to believe that. Why? Because his movements to me seem to be on reflex. This movement of arms is an involuntary response, the result of a bullet hitting his spine.
The hole in his backside is shallow. No bullet continued a path beyond an inch.
Therefore, for his spine to have been hit, we must conclude that the bullet that hit the spine entered in the throat.
There is no other way for JFK to have sustained a wound that would give him an involuntary muscular response, forcing his arms up, than a bullet hitting his spine after it entered thru his throat.
If you have the throat wound as being the result of shrapnel from the head shot, then how do you explain the movement of his arms much prior to the head shot? What caused that movement? The shallow shot into his back hit only flesh, and not spine.
I still feel that the "pristine" bullet is the bullet that entered JFK's back. It would easily fall out since it was in so shallow. This bullet allowed the shots to be tied to the "Oswald" rifle, for it gave the authorities evidence that they could work with. There was no need to have to rely on a "planted" bullet at the hospital. The conspirators just made a "defective" bullet so that it would become a slower bullet, so that penetration would be only slight, thereby maintaining a bullet with markings that would match the barrel-rifling marks given by the Oswald rifle.
I also think that each shooter had an assistant that instructed them when to fire, thus facilitating the ability to "shoot over" each other, which allows them to conceal the actual numbers of shots and the directions the shots came from.
It was a "timing" exercise, practiced dozens of times before 11/22/63. Synchronization could be accomplished by radio, whereby a signal is given to start the "exercise" in motion, a mark, so to speak, This mark is given as the limo hits a certain spot on the street. Then the shooter's assistants use stop watches to arrive at a precise time, and relays that precise moment, by a countdown, to the shooter. It would not be difficult.
Now three teams fire at once. There's 3 shots on one round, but witnesses will speak of hearing only 1 of those shots.
Subsequently, 6...7....8 or 9 shots ring out. But most people there will claim hearing much less. Something like 3, perhaps. And that's about the right amount that we can allow for one shooter -- ie, Oswald. So it all works out. Three marksmen assures that they will get their "hit", yet it can still be made to look like only one guy did it.
Oswald leaves the TSBDB in frustration and mindfilled agony, for he knew he'd been had. He is given two clues that convince him of this: His phone call never came; he was given no instructions. And a rifle will be tied to his possession now that he was duped by his confederates to bring the wrapped curtain rods that he lugged under one arm into the building.
All that agony is released moments later at the Texas Theater, as he is surrounded by law enforcement and he shouts, "This is it!"
"They have taken me in custody since I lived in the Soviet Union".
"Of course, since I work in that building, it's natural that I'd be in that building".
"I'm just a patsy!"
In fact, I welcome it.
Throat wound? Doesn't line up with any position in the front?
JFK was turned towards the crowd on his right. It seems to me that would place him in line with a shot from the rightside. From exactly where, I'm not sure.
The throat wound occurs at the time JFK's arms raise up toward his face. I have to believe that. Why? Because his movements to me seem to be on reflex. This movement of arms is an involuntary response, the result of a bullet hitting his spine.
The hole in his backside is shallow. No bullet continued a path beyond an inch.
Therefore, for his spine to have been hit, we must conclude that the bullet that hit the spine entered in the throat.
There is no other way for JFK to have sustained a wound that would give him an involuntary muscular response, forcing his arms up, than a bullet hitting his spine after it entered thru his throat.
If you have the throat wound as being the result of shrapnel from the head shot, then how do you explain the movement of his arms much prior to the head shot? What caused that movement? The shallow shot into his back hit only flesh, and not spine.
I still feel that the "pristine" bullet is the bullet that entered JFK's back. It would easily fall out since it was in so shallow. This bullet allowed the shots to be tied to the "Oswald" rifle, for it gave the authorities evidence that they could work with. There was no need to have to rely on a "planted" bullet at the hospital. The conspirators just made a "defective" bullet so that it would become a slower bullet, so that penetration would be only slight, thereby maintaining a bullet with markings that would match the barrel-rifling marks given by the Oswald rifle.
I also think that each shooter had an assistant that instructed them when to fire, thus facilitating the ability to "shoot over" each other, which allows them to conceal the actual numbers of shots and the directions the shots came from.
It was a "timing" exercise, practiced dozens of times before 11/22/63. Synchronization could be accomplished by radio, whereby a signal is given to start the "exercise" in motion, a mark, so to speak, This mark is given as the limo hits a certain spot on the street. Then the shooter's assistants use stop watches to arrive at a precise time, and relays that precise moment, by a countdown, to the shooter. It would not be difficult.
Now three teams fire at once. There's 3 shots on one round, but witnesses will speak of hearing only 1 of those shots.
Subsequently, 6...7....8 or 9 shots ring out. But most people there will claim hearing much less. Something like 3, perhaps. And that's about the right amount that we can allow for one shooter -- ie, Oswald. So it all works out. Three marksmen assures that they will get their "hit", yet it can still be made to look like only one guy did it.
Oswald leaves the TSBDB in frustration and mindfilled agony, for he knew he'd been had. He is given two clues that convince him of this: His phone call never came; he was given no instructions. And a rifle will be tied to his possession now that he was duped by his confederates to bring the wrapped curtain rods that he lugged under one arm into the building.
All that agony is released moments later at the Texas Theater, as he is surrounded by law enforcement and he shouts, "This is it!"
"They have taken me in custody since I lived in the Soviet Union".
"Of course, since I work in that building, it's natural that I'd be in that building".
"I'm just a patsy!"
JFK was NOT shot in the throat.
I too have believed for a long time that he was shot in the throat. But it didn't happen. The only time that JFK COULD have been shot in the throat, was very early in the game, at the beginning of the Zapruder film. Why? Because after that, he slumps forward and his throat is not exposed anymore. It doesn't make sense for ANY shooter, not even a trigger happy one, to shoot from the front that early, if the plan was to frame a patsy from BEHIND. Moreover, it would be an EXTREMELY risky shot right thru the windshield (glass breaks the line of vision, and could also deflect the bullet path). The bullet hole, crack or whatever it was in the windshield, was the result from a missed bullet from behind over JFK's head. Just as the nick in the chrome lining was.
Additionally, his head and throat would be exposed for only a very short time, with no time to follow and aim. And the other passengers were in the way, JFK was the most rear passenger in the limo, hence an additional risk to hit someone else in the car. Finally, there was no wound of exit, neither a bullet found, found for such a shot.
The throat wound was caused by an exiting fragment , maybe even a drop of mercury from JF's mercury exploosive bullet. The tiny perforations in JFK's face, as observed by embalmer Thom Robinson, were also the result of mercury drops.
Lastly, what you guys and dolls don't know is that I have an interview with Thom Robinson, wherein he states that the gaping hole in JFK's skull was probed with a tiny probe and that one of those probes from INSIDE the skull came out at the throat wound ! That's why he told me that he has always been very quiet about this, but that he has chuckled for all those years at the conspiracy buffs who claim JFK was shot in the throat from the front. He knew better since 1963. And I know better since I spoke to him. I should have known better earlier by listening to Jimmy, instead of to the JFK research community, and what they have brainwashed themselves with. I too was a victim of what I wanted to believe, and looked so self-evident.
James Files was right all along. He was the ONLY shooter from the front, and even he was not supposed to shoot. But he did, because JFK had not been hit in the head. Failure was never an option in a operation that Jimmy took part in, not even at age 21. That's what made him such a valuable asset for the Chicago mob and the CIA.
Wim
I too have believed for a long time that he was shot in the throat. But it didn't happen. The only time that JFK COULD have been shot in the throat, was very early in the game, at the beginning of the Zapruder film. Why? Because after that, he slumps forward and his throat is not exposed anymore. It doesn't make sense for ANY shooter, not even a trigger happy one, to shoot from the front that early, if the plan was to frame a patsy from BEHIND. Moreover, it would be an EXTREMELY risky shot right thru the windshield (glass breaks the line of vision, and could also deflect the bullet path). The bullet hole, crack or whatever it was in the windshield, was the result from a missed bullet from behind over JFK's head. Just as the nick in the chrome lining was.
Additionally, his head and throat would be exposed for only a very short time, with no time to follow and aim. And the other passengers were in the way, JFK was the most rear passenger in the limo, hence an additional risk to hit someone else in the car. Finally, there was no wound of exit, neither a bullet found, found for such a shot.
The throat wound was caused by an exiting fragment , maybe even a drop of mercury from JF's mercury exploosive bullet. The tiny perforations in JFK's face, as observed by embalmer Thom Robinson, were also the result of mercury drops.
Lastly, what you guys and dolls don't know is that I have an interview with Thom Robinson, wherein he states that the gaping hole in JFK's skull was probed with a tiny probe and that one of those probes from INSIDE the skull came out at the throat wound ! That's why he told me that he has always been very quiet about this, but that he has chuckled for all those years at the conspiracy buffs who claim JFK was shot in the throat from the front. He knew better since 1963. And I know better since I spoke to him. I should have known better earlier by listening to Jimmy, instead of to the JFK research community, and what they have brainwashed themselves with. I too was a victim of what I wanted to believe, and looked so self-evident.
James Files was right all along. He was the ONLY shooter from the front, and even he was not supposed to shoot. But he did, because JFK had not been hit in the head. Failure was never an option in a operation that Jimmy took part in, not even at age 21. That's what made him such a valuable asset for the Chicago mob and the CIA.
Wim
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Kevin Fisher
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Not shot in the throat?
Then how do you account for the arm movement up towards his face?
And don't tell me he's shielding himself, or else I'll find that such a stupid comment as that will be enough to keep me away from this site forever henceforth.
JFK has been hit in the spinal area, and the results of that causes a involuntary muscular reaction that sends his arms up.
Look at the Zapruder film and see how JFK is turned so as to face Zapruder. This angle puts him in line with shooter from the knoll area. That does make it possible.
Then how do you account for the arm movement up towards his face?
And don't tell me he's shielding himself, or else I'll find that such a stupid comment as that will be enough to keep me away from this site forever henceforth.
JFK has been hit in the spinal area, and the results of that causes a involuntary muscular reaction that sends his arms up.
Look at the Zapruder film and see how JFK is turned so as to face Zapruder. This angle puts him in line with shooter from the knoll area. That does make it possible.
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john hines
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm
Greetings Gentlemen. I know I'm new to this forum. After reading your dialogs, I sided with Wim and Bruce in regards to the exploded mercury fragment exiting through the throat. Wim you stated something that made me backtrack a little bit though. If Kennedy spoke after receiving a wound to the throat as a result of an exiting fragment from whom I would suspect was Files' bullet and that same bullet was the one that created the fragment and exited out of his throat, how would Kennedy be able to speak after a considerable headwound? I was under the impression that Files' shot was the fatal shot. I may be wrong, please correct me if you will.
John
John