A Couple of Things I Just Don't Believe

[Kirk]

Joe, Andries and JDB,I am not sure if Holt is lying, but it doesn't look like him to me, but it could be. The question would have been settled, if the whole truth of what Holt and Files and others knew was totally given, as JDB has said. I believe File's story about 80 percent, and maybe that is good enough for him, but not good enough to not raise reasonable doubt in anybody's rational mind. Of course Mr. Files has some good reason for not being completely forth coming because he does not have immunity from his actions on that day. But, and it is only my opinion the action of assassinating a President and the Truth along with it are greater then one's safety and security. I believe that Files did participate that day, but being a young guy he was pretty clueless about what he was really a part of in a historical sense, but he knows now.

[Pennyworth]

Kirk wrote:Joe, Andries and JDB,I am not sure if Holt is lying, but it doesn't look like him to me, but it could be. The question would have been settled, if the whole truth of what Holt and Files and others knew was totally given, as JDB has said. I believe File's story about 80 percent, and maybe that is good enough for him, but not good enough to not raise reasonable doubt in anybody's rational mind. Of course Mr. Files has some good reason for not being completely forth coming because he does not have immunity from his actions on that day. But, and it is only my opinion the action of assassinating a President and the Truth along with it are greater then one's safety and security. I believe that Files did participate that day, but being a young guy he was pretty clueless about what he was really a part of in a historical sense, but he knows now.Hello Kirk,IMO, immunity has little to do with it as he already is incarcerated and has spilled a great deal of beans ...he is not forthcoming on a few issues because he KNOWS certain people who are involved who are alive and very hazardous to his health.....'I hope my breath was ok'...

[Bob]

Kirk wrote:Chris,Yeah, enough characters for a couple of plays at least. So many it would have been hard not to bump into each other. Pretty sure it isn't Hunt as well, but still not sure it is Holt. Pretty sure it is Landsdale though.ChristophMessner wrote:3tramps.jpg

[turtleman]

I think there was a lot of diversion in the planning. The more moving parts the more confusion. I believe Holt and I believe Files. We know Holt provided I.D.'s to the players. They had everyone there. One could say why was Hunt there? What did he actually do? And Morales or Phillips or even Bush 41 for that matter. They were all there because of the enormity of the event. Lots of diversion and moving parts leads to where we are now. People who have no apparent motive to lie and put their own health in jeopardy score major points on my credibility ledger. The disinfo bunch are not that hard to out. Not for the bunch that frequent this board.

[kenmurray]

Fletcher Prouty on Ed Lansdale:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suqsBlDgl-I

[JDThomas]

I've said before that much of what Holt has said seems plausible, but there are pieces missing in the jig-saw of his story. Why disguised as a Tramp if all he was doing was delivering fake id's and hand guns? - why hand guns? what were they for? Why hang around after the delivery? what were the instructions? Were the Tramps to be alternative patsies or as a diversionary tactic? (a particularly risky venture to agree to undertake, especially when armed and with radios).Holt must have had more detailed information than this. ........ too tired to write any more - I'm the wrong side of the pond!

[Phil Dragoo]

Bob, Lois is absolutely killer on identifying these three men: http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/lois1.htmKen, your Prouty-Lansdale video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suqsBlDgl-I is helpful in illustrating what Prouty had written regarding the uprooting and reintroduction of a million Vietnamese from north to south to be players in the "insurgency". And Lansdale's work in the Philippines is a masterpiece of agitprop eclipsing Phillips.Holt seems to have been a utility mechanic, while Harrelson and Rogers could handle any wet work in ice cold fashion.Just an observation regarding JFK's final strike in NSAM 263 (Not Stayin' Any Mo'): Prouty indicates the run-up to the War was a twenty-year effort, first presence and death in Nam was '45, War there began '65--hence the Powers That Be weren't having any ephemeral political figure derail their long train running.Kirk, your second point being the seeming danger of parking the getaway car so close--I think we need to consider Jack Nicholson's speech in A Few Good Men, that perhaps we have no common ground with men who will shoot a president in the head because it is the job, or men who will chop up their parents and pack them in the ice box before leaving town the way we would turn off the lights.I think of Aldrich Ames' worried query of his KGB handler regarding his upcoming CIA polygraph, to which the handler replied, "Just take it."Just Do It didn't originate with Nike.

[Kirk]

Thanks for all the input and linksI will defer to the over all judgement of the forum that the older Tramp is in fact Holt. I use to claim that I was hell with names, but never forgot a face, but with experience I know faces change and as well as eyesight. I have looked at the work done by Lois Gibson a number of times, and again will just defer to the fact that she is an expert and I am not on these matters. That being said I do wonder how it might play in a trial.Phil, I do agree with you about not being able to truly understand the kind of people that would commit such an act. It is hard to know the true soul of anyone, and more so one that might not have one, but I personally believe all humans have souls, just some are damaged beyond repair. I know a few like that and actually consider some my friends. The one thing I have learned from them and life is that they may not seem to be deeply thoughful human beings, but they do take pleasure in thinking and planning on how they might use situations and people to their advantage.I also agree with Turtleman on certain aspects as well, and the many moving pieces Idea is a pretty perfect way to explain the plan. 3 card Monty on steriods is another. A coordinated hand really is quicker then the eye, and maybe the camera as well. One thing that this forum opened my eyes to was the fact that so many of the usual or unusual suspects were actually there, and maybe not to participate, but to actually watch and maybe be entertained, kind of a shared moment of joy for a secret society of sociopaths.It is true that immunity might not be the most pressing aspect for what File's might know that he has not told openly yet, but as I recall he said that he was not afraid of what others might do to him at this point, and that mainly he never turned on anyone or "ratted" anyone out while they were alive. Ok, there is some honor in that, but personally it pales to the honor of giving the actual truth to the victims, and for me that is not just President Kennedy and his family, but all those that have been lied to, and have had to live the lie, and those that know it is a lie, and no longer are able to trust. The act for me has always seemed so senseless and pointless, but my faith is based on purpose. I find hope in the belief that all things and all people and all actions have some purpose, and some meaning, even if I do not have the ability to understand them in total. Of course I have to acknowledge that this could my own self-delusion to make it possible for me to accept my own life's actions good and bad for my own self survival. You never know for sure until you do.

[Bob]

Kirk wrote:Thanks for all the input and linksI will defer to the over all judgement of the forum that the older Tramp is in fact Holt. I use to claim that I was hell with names, but never forgot a face, but with experience I know faces change and as well as eyesight. I have looked at the work done by Lois Gibson a number of times, and again will just defer to the fact that she is an expert and I am not on these matters. That being said I do wonder how it might play in a trial.Phil, I do agree with you about not being able to truly understand the kind of people that would commit such an act. It is hard to know the true soul of anyone, and more so one that might not have one, but I personally believe all humans have souls, just some are damaged beyond repair. I know a few like that and actually consider some my friends. The one thing I have learned from them and life is that they may not seem to be deeply thoughful human beings, but they do take pleasure in thinking and planning on how they might use situations and people to their advantage.I also agree with Turtleman on certain aspects as well, and the many moving pieces Idea is a pretty perfect way to explain the plan. 3 card Monty on steriods is another. A coordinated hand really is quicker then the eye, and maybe the camera as well. One thing that this forum opened my eyes to was the fact that so many of the usual or unusual suspects were actually there, and maybe not to participate, but to actually watch and maybe be entertained, kind of a shared moment of joy for a secret society of sociopaths.It is true that immunity might not be the most pressing aspect for what File's might know that he has not told openly yet, but as I recall he said that he was not afraid of what others might do to him at this point, and that mainly he never turned on anyone or "ratted" anyone out while they were alive. Ok, there is some honor in that, but personally it pales to the honor of giving the actual truth to the victims, and for me that is not just President Kennedy and his family, but all those that have been lied to, and have had to live the lie, and those that know it is a lie, and no longer are able to trust. The act for me has always seemed so senseless and pointless, but my faith is based on purpose. I find hope in the belief that all things and all people and all actions have some purpose, and some meaning, even if I do not have the ability to understand them in total. Of course I have to acknowledge that this could my own self-delusion to make it possible for me to accept my own life's actions good and bad for my own self survival. You never know for sure until you do.Well stated Kirk. Now...here is what I DO believe. The same powers that murdered JFK on 11/22/1963 are still in power today. All the policies that JFK attempted to change and refused to implement are rearing their ugly heads today. Wars based on lies and the war profiteering that goes with it (like Vietnam). The Fed and Big Banking looting countless BILLIONS of dollars. Big Oil making massive profits with their outrageous prices. The CIA is conducting Black Operations whenever they please. The MSM is in bed with the power elite and they keep hidden the lies of the past AND present. Lies like the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations and events like 9/11, which is derived from the plan put forward to JFK in March of 1962 called Operation Northwoods. In 1962, it was about Cuba. In 2001, it was about Afghanistan and Iraq. JFK saw this nightmare that we are living in now, but the bad dream all started on 11/22/1963.

[andries]

Bob talking about dark forces who removed the short interview with our sinister interesting genius E Landsdale on youtube ?Is there any other public filmmaterial on landsdale ?