Doug Horne on BOR

[Bob]

As Ken posted in an earlier post, here is the link to the Doug Horne interview from last night on Black Op Radio.http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.htmlI have loved all the guests on BOR, especially Jim DiEugenio, but the Horne segment was the best I ever heard. Before I go any further, don't forget to write Len Osanic about getting Wim on one night on BOR to discuss the Jimmy Files story.osanic@prouty.orgAnyway, if you haven't heard this yet...check it out. It is fascinating and Doug is the type of guy that will leave no stone unturned to find scientific evidence. Here is some more information about his book...http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.p ... 1-fkmr0All I know is that I will definitely be getting this book.Anyway, a number of things stuck out to me in Horne's presentation on Thursday night, but two really jump out.1) For the first time, even after all the prodding by Thom, I truly believe the Zapruder film is a hoax, especially regarding the head shot to JFK. A hoax just like the autopsy photos. In fact, the two are married to each other.2) Doug reports that one of the witnesses said that JFK had an EXIT wound in his throat. That is EXACTLY what Jimmy Files said, as the shrapnel that caused the wound came from the mercury round from his fireball. Bottom line, give the presentation a listen and get the book.

[ThomZajac]

For reasons I don't understand, I am unable to download anything black BlackOpRadio. (I should probably just get my 18 year-old son to figure out for me),So, anyway, I have been unable to listen as of yet.Glad you've come around on the Zapruder film alteration, Bob. I know Wim doesn't agree, but I would like to mention again that an altered Zapruder film does nothing to undermine the James File story (though I am still personally undecided on that).I am curious about the witness who described the throat wound as one of exit. Can you tell me who it was? I like to think I can have an open mind on things I see differently, and Horne has a lot of credibility with me, but I am also skeptical. Bob, if you time, could you get me the details on that? Thanks.Thom

[Bob]

Thom...see this recent blog by Doug Horne...Dr. Malcolm O. Perry, Key Parkland Hospital Witness to JFK's Wounds, Dies December 8th, 12:12 Dr. Malcolm Perry's passing, at the age of 80, was just announced in Texas newspapers.Dr. Perry attempted to save President Kennedy's life on November 22, 1963 by performing a tracheostomy and administering closed chest massage in Trauma Room One at Parkland hospital.The tracheostomy he performed was a small, transverse incision 2.5 to 3 cm wide, which he made through a puncture in the President's throat---below the Adam's apple and just to the right of the midline---a puncture which he characterized as AN ENTRANCE WOUND three different times during the televised hospital press conference that afternoon following JFK's death.On the day President Kennedy was treated, all of the attending physicians who saw the bullet wound in the throat characterized it as a typical entrance wound. Their observations have always stood in stark opposition to the official U.S. government cover story that President Kennedy was killed by an assassin firing from above and behind, and that he was not shot from the front by anyone.What most of the public does not know---and what is detailed in my book, "Inside the Assassination Records Review Board," is that late on the night of President Kennedy's autopsy at Bethesda Naval hospital, Federal officials located at Bethesda began harrassing Dr. Perry on the telephone in an attempt to get him to change his mind about having seen an entry wound in the President's throat earlier in the day. Nurse Audrey Bell told me in 1997 that Dr. Perry complained to her the next morning (on Saturday, November 23, 1963) that he had gotten almost no sleep the night before, because unnamed persons at Bethesda had been pressuring him on the telephone all night long to get him to change his opinion about the nature of the bullet wound in the throat, and to redescribe it as an exit, rather than an entrance.In his 1981 book "Best Evidence," David Lifton documented that the Secret Service confiscated videotapes of the Parkland hospital press conference from at least one local television station, and that Secret Service Chief James Rowley had informed the Warren Commission in 1964 that no videotapes or transcripts of the press conference could be found. But as Lifton revealed, a White House verbatim transcript of the press conference (White House Transcript 1327-C) later surfaced. In my own book, "Inside the ARRB," I reveal that Chief Rowley lied to the Warren Commission when he said no transcripts could be found, for on the last page of transcript 1327-C, the document is stamped as received by Rowley's office on November 26, 1963. His statement to the Warren Commission was therefore false.A graduate student, James Gochenaur, revealed to both the Church Committee and to the HSCA in the mid-1970s that Secret Service Agent Elmer Moore had confessed to him in 1970 that he had "leaned on Dr. Perry" shortly after the Bethesda autopsy to get him to stop describing the bullet wound in President Kennedy's throat as an entrance wound. (The Bethesda autopsy report concluded it was an exit wound.) According to Gochenaur, Moore also told him that the Secret Service had to investigate the assassination in an expected, predetermined way or they would "get their heads chopped off." Moore, unfortunately, also told Gochenaur that sometimes he thought President Kennedy was "a traitor" because he was "giving things away to the Russians."[According to Arlen Specter, this same Elmer Moore was present when Chief Justice Warren, Gerald Ford, and he interviewed Jack Ruby in Dallas; and Arlen Specter also revealed in 2003 (at a conference in Pittsburgh) that Elmer Moore was the Secret Service Agent who showed him an undocumented photograph of President Kennedy's back wound during the May 1964 re-enactment of the Dallas motorcade conducted by the Warren Commission.] Unfortunately, after Federal officials at Bethesda (on November 22-23, 1963) and Elmer Moore (between November 29-December 11, 1963) "leaned on" Dr. Perry, he spent the remainder of his life straddling the fence and saying that the bullet wound in JFK's throat "could have been either" an entrance or an exit wound.But that is not what he said on the afternoon of the assassination, before there was an official explanation for the crime to fall in line with. White House Transcript 1327-C makes that very clear, as I reveal in my book, in Chapters 7 and 9.Former Chief Operating Room nurse Audrey Bell related to me in 1997 that Dr. Perry was in a state of torment on November 23, 1963, after being pressured by Federal officials all night long to change his mind, because, as he put it, "my professional credibility is at stake." Sadly, he appears to have decided for the remainder of his life that discretion was the better part of valor.The story does not end here. The chief prosector at the President's autopsy, Dr. James J. Humes, described the throat wound in the autopsy report as having "widely gaping, irregular edges," and in his Warren Commission testimony, Humes said the gaping wound in the throat was 7 to 8 cm wide. In contrast, Dr. Charles Crenshaw, a third year resident at Parkland in 1963, told ABC's "20/20" news magazine in 1992 that after the tracheostomy tube and flange were removed from the President's neck following his death, that the very small incision made by Dr. Perry closed of its own volition, and that the bullet wound had NOT been obliterated and was still clearly visible. When Dr. Crenshaw viewed the widely published bootleg autopsy photo (from Bethesda Naval hospital) showing the incision in JFK's neck, he expressed the opinion to ABC's "20/20" that the incision in that photograph was DOUBLE the width of the incision Dr. Perry originally made on the President's body. The descriptions of the incision in the anterior neck, provided by Dr. Humes and Dr. Crenshaw, together constitute de facto evidence that JFK's throat wound was tampered with prior to the start of the Navy autopsy at Bethesda Naval hospital. President Kennedy's body was in the custody of the U.S. Secret Service while enroute Washington D.C. from Dallas, Texas.Now I understand that the conspirators wanted the throat wound to be an exit wound, as they were trying to figure out their magic bullet theory. But the entrance wound in JFK's back does not line up with the throat wound. At all. Gerald Ford had to move the back wound up several inches to try and make the theory plausible. The throat wound (if indeed an exit wound) had to come from the mercury shrapnel, as there was not an entrance wound near JFK's neck. Plus, there were the shrapnel wounds in JFK's face (the mortician...Thom Robinson saw these as well) that were also caused by the mercury round used by Files. In terms of the BOR presentation by Horne, I'll listen to it again and get you the name of the person I am referring to about the exit wound.

[ThomZajac]

Bob, thanks, but I am confused. The Horne blog, unless I'm totally missing something, completely supports the throat wound as being one of entrance. And this is from the doctor who clearly had the best look.

[Wayne Stracener]

Bob, I need to talk to Doug, I've been to his blog and there is no contact point, Do you or anyone else know how to get in touch with Doug..

[Dealey Joe]

In the series TMWKK there is a medic from Bathesda who says the throat wound was a blow out wound?I wonder why the two body theory has not been explored?In my thinking there is more reason to consider two JFK bodys that two LHO's

[kenmurray]

ThomZajac wrote:For reasons I don't understand, I am unable to download anything black BlackOpRadio. (I should probably just get my 18 year-old son to figure out for me),So, anyway, I have been unable to listen as of yet.Glad you've come around on the Zapruder film alteration, Bob. I know Wim doesn't agree, but I would like to mention again that an altered Zapruder film does nothing to undermine the James File story (though I am still personally undecided on that).I am curious about the witness who described the throat wound as one of exit. Can you tell me who it was? I like to think I can have an open mind on things I see differently, and Horne has a lot of credibility with me, but I am also skeptical. Bob, if you time, could you get me the details on that? Thanks.ThomThom if you have real player downloaded on your computer, you should be able to listen to BOR. I had problems in the beginning when I first try to listen to BOR. With Real Player it's been working ever since.

[Bob]

Check out this story on Horne's blog...RFK Was Working with LIFE magazine to "Take Down" LBJ in November of 1963 insidethearrb November 11th, 9:07 A former editor of LIFE magazine has just provided explosive information, in November of 2009, that indicates the Attorney General of the United States, Robert F. Kennedy, was working with LIFE in November of 1963 to bring down Vice President Lyndon Johnson and ruin his political career, so that his brother, President Kennedy, could replace LBJ as his running mate in 1964. I include this information in my blog because it confirms a central thesis of my book, which is that LBJ willingly participated in a large domestic conspiracy to assassinate JFK in order to avoid his own political ruin. I do not view LBJ as the mastermind of any assassination plot, but I do view him as a crucial "enabler," whose cooperation was essential to both covering up the assassination, and to enacting the policy changes desired by the assassination cabal within the national security establishment.Earlier this month, James Wagenvoord (who in 1963 was the 27 year old Editorial business manager and an assistant to LIFE magazine's Executive Editor) contacted John Simkin, who runs the website Education Forum, with the following revelation. According to Wagenvoord, "Beginning in late summer 1963 the magazine, based upon information fed from Bobby Kennedy and the Justice Department, had been developing a major newsbreak piece concerning Johnson and Bobby Baker. On publication Johnson would have been finished and off the '64 ticket (reason the material was fed to us) and would probably have been facing prison time. At the time LIFE magazine was arguably the most important general news source in the U.S. The top management of Time, Inc. was closely allied with the USA's various intelligence agencies and we were used...by the Kennedy Justice Department as a conduit to the public...The LBJ/Baker piece was in the final editing stages and was scheduled to break in the issue of the magazine due out the week of November 24 (the magazine would have made it to the newsstands on Nov. 26th or 27th). It had been prepared in relative secrecy by a small special editorial team. On Kennedy's death research files and all numbered copies of the nearly print-ready draft were gathered up by my boss (he had been the top editor on the team) and shredded. The issue that was to expose LBJ instead featured the Zapruder film. Based upon our success in syndicating the Zapruder film I became Chief of Time/LIFE editorial services and remained in that job until 1968." [emphasis added by me]John Simkin of the Education Forum shared this information with author Sterling Seagrove. Seagrove (who was on the Washington Post staff for four years) wrote: "It was Phil Graham [publisher of the newspaper] who persuaded JFK to ensure his victory in the election by taking LBJ as his running mate, although JFK detested LBJ as one of the most corrupt men in D.C." Seagrove explained that the newspaper "was getting a steady feed of White House leaks that enabled Larry [Stern] to do a long series of exposes on the corporations LBJ was so intimately tied to (Ling-Temko-Vought, and many others). It was my understanding that JFK hoped these astounding revelations would ultimately force LBJ to resign the vice-presidency in disgrace."My analysis: First, we now have an insider from LIFE who confirms the longstanding rumors that the top management of Time, Inc. [read: C.D. Jackson and Henry Luce] were closely linked to the U.S. intelligence establishment, and did their bidding from time to time. Public opinion is all too often molded and generated by the major media organs in the United States, and this proves that point.Second, the fact that the President's brother, RFK (in his role as Attorney General), was engineering the public destruction of LBJ, provided LBJ with a strong motive to participate in an assassination plot hatched by others. [Seagrove informed Simkin that this was a poorly kept secret and that he is sure LBJ knew what was going on.] Third, the proposed timing of the revelations (the week after JFK's Dallas trip) indicates to me how well the Kennedys were managing the news---arranging for the release of the expose on Lyndon Johnson only AFTER THE NOVEMBER 1963 TEXAS TRIP WAS OVER. Fourth, as documented in my forthcoming book (in Chapter 14), it is clear that LIFE purchased the motion picture rights to the Zapruder film on Monday, November 25th, 1963 so that the film could be suppressed as a motion picture. After paying an additional $100,000.00 for the film on Monday (beyond the $50,000.00 for print rights that they had paid the previous Saturday), Time, Inc. never once permitted the public use of the film as a motion picture, for profit, thus confirming that the real intent of Time, Inc. in repurchasing it was suppression. Fifth, no doubt C.D. Jackson (LIFE's publisher, and a CIA asset) and Henry B. Luce (editorial head of the Time, Inc. empire, and an avowed enemy of JFK) were involved in BOTH the decision not to run the LBJ expose after the assassination, AND to repurchase the Zapruder film for purposes of its suppression as a motion picture. Unfortunately, it seems that the Kennedy brothers' desire to delay publishing the LBJ expose until after the Texas trip was unwise, for it allowed the timing of the assassination to precede the publication of the article, thus ensuring that it would never see the light of day. So it now seems that LIFE not only suppressed the Zapruder film as a motion picture, but also prevented the ruin of LBJ by literally shredding its expose of the new President, immediately after JFK's assassination.Sixth, it seems likely to me that because of Henry B. Luce's hatred of JFK and his policies, he (or C.D. Jackson) likely tipped off LBJ about the impending expose. Luce was undoubtedly playing both sides of the fence, with the Kennedy brothers the losers. The true story of the deep politics in America in 1963 is not an uplifting one, but we need to face it head on, if we are to understand our real history, and regain our self respect as as a people.Seventh: Phil Graham's opinion that it was his suggestion that caused JFK to place LBJ on the ticket in1960 is erroneous, and evidence of "the illusion of centrality" exhibited by most participants in historical events. JFK's secretary, Evelyn Lincoln, made clear in a filmed interview in 1993 (aired on Frontline, in "The Secret File on J.Edgar Hoover") that it was really blackmail, using Hoover's secret documentation on Senator Kennedy's womanizing, that put LBJ on the ticket. Furthermore, the myth that JFK needed LBJ on the ticket to win the South, and would not have won without him on the ticket, was discredited long ago; JFK carried part of the South in spite of LBJ, who barely carried his own state of Texas in the 1960 election.Eighth, and Finally: LBJ's knowledge that RFK was actively seeking his public ruin, via LIFE magazine, helps to better explain the great animus between the two men after LBJ assumed the Presidency.So let us ask the obvious rhetorical question: why didn't we hear about this during the 1960s? The answer was provided to us hundreds of years ago.Englishman John Harrison once said: "Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason? If it does, none dare call it treason."Chapters 15 and 16 of my book, Inside the Assassination Records Review Board, detail the corruption of Lyndon Johnson and his likely participation in the JFK assassination plot as an "enabler" necessary to its success. JFK's death was clearly a consensus decision by the national security establishment, and its operational details were conceived and carried out by individuals within the CIA, but LBJ's cooperation was essential, and this new information, courageously provided by Mr. Wagenvoord and by Mr. Seagrove, provides us with additional information on LBJ's motivation to participate in such a plot. He did it to save his own political skin, and to avoid disgrace and a jail sentence, as I explain in my book. Now we know how very, very close Lyndon Baines Johnson came to utter ruin (and the jail sentence predicted by his own grandmother). The government would not have hesitated to indict a broken LBJ, once he had been disgraced and resigned from office as Vice President. And the planned expose in LIFE---the week after the Dallas trip---would have ensured LBJ's disgrace and political ruin. Now we know how very, very close LBJ came to utter destruction in late 1963. (Article by Doug Horne) END

[Bob]

Wayne Stracener wrote:Bob, I need to talk to Doug, I've been to his blog and there is no contact point, Do you or anyone else know how to get in touch with Doug..I'll keep looking for a way to contact Doug, but I would think his blog is a good place to start. It's fairly new and it looks like there is a communication process there, sort of like my space.

[Bruce Patrick Brychek]

Dear Bob:Great Post. Powerful, and consistent partially with my analysis under my 03.24.2006 Headline about the book, The Texas Connection: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy. Check my Post of 03.24.2009 under that Headline.I think that the Billy Sol Estes Matters, in conjunction with the Bobby Baker Matters, awakened LBJ to his impending Waterloo.From a pure logistics point, I think that while JFK could still have been assassinated in Dallas, Texas easily enough on 11.22.1963, the involvement of LBJ and Bush 1 helped grease the wheels.Comments ?Respectfully,Bruce Patrick Brychek.