45

[Dealey Joe]

Does anyone have any knowledge or thought about the 45 caliber bullet found by Buddy Walthers in the grass????

[kenmurray]

Joe, here Groden's assesment on the 45 slug and the head shot as well from the COPA conference in 2007.http://copavideos.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... lTestimony of Walthers:http://www.whokilledjfk.net/buddy_walthers.htm

[Tom Bigg]

There were numerous bullets recovered according to the Warren Report:Bullet #4 -Hit person on sidewalk, as set forth In Volume 20, page 410Bullet #5 -Hit the inside of the windshield of the driver’s compartment cracking the glass. Volume 16, page 945.Bullet #6 -Hit the windshield chrome, as set forth In Volume 16, page 946.Bullet #7 -Hit the sign. Volume 16, page 19-24Bullet #8 -Hit the motorcycle officer on the far side of the motorcade. Volume 18, page 763, and Volume 19, page 535Bullet #9 -Known as the Koolade bullet, Volume 6, page 212.Bullet #10 -Right shoulder/chest. Volume 6, page 19.Bullet #11 -Right wrist, as found in Volume 6, page 92.Bullet #12 -Left thigh, as recorded in Volume 6, page 90.The Fourth Burst, Two ShotsBullet #13 -Hit child at curb on the north side of Elm Street, Volume 11, Page 218. Bullet #14 -Hit man named John Wiseman, Volume 19, page 535.The Fifth Burst, Three ShotsNow we get down to the fifth burst of shots and one of these killed the man beside the lovely lady, if you choose to reject the Parkland report and accept the Bethesda autopsy. In any event, this is the “shot” generally regarded as the fatal one based upon the Warren Report. Thousands of column inches have been written about this “magic bullet” by dozens of writers in an effort to explain it. Two Secret Service agents, Agent Hickey and Agent Bennett, saw the bullets hit. What is generally not known is that the affidavit of one of these agents was contrary to the conclusions of the Warren Report. His affidavit appears In Volume 24 at page 542. One of the eye-witnesses was asked to testify, and the other was not. Both sat in the rear seat of the Presidential follow-up car. The accepted eye-witness’s testimony appears in Volume 18 at page 762. Let’s see if you can figure out which eye-witness Earl Warren and his fellow conspirators would not ask to testify:Secret Service Agent Hickey:“At the moment he was almost sitting erect, I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to me to be no time element between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn’t seem to be any impact against his head.”Secret Service Agent Bennett:“The President’s auto moved down a slight grade and the crowd was very sparse. At this point I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a firecracker. Immediately upon hearing the supposed firecracker, (I) looked at the Boss’s car. At this time I saw a shot hit the Boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder; a second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high on the Boss’s head.”Well, which one? Agent Hickey says that the man beside the lovely lady was hit in the rear of the head but mentions nothing about a hit in the shoulder. The Parkland report does not mention anything about a hit at the right shoulder. Agent Bennett’s affidavit mentions the President’s car, but then talks about someone called “the Boss” who had a different set of Injuries! Do you suppose that this is beginning to unravel the mystery of the two bodies? There is testimony in Volume 20 at page 163 which may indicate who this second man is, but I cannot go into it in this pamphlet. It is enough to publish here that Agent Bennett was not asked to testily. Note however, that Agent Hickey testifies to bullets in rapid succession. Note also that Agent Bennett mentioned noises that sounded like a firecracker.Nord Davis

[Dealey Joe]

The thing that keeps bugging me is the .45 which Groden is correct thatan assassin would not choose such a weapon, but an odd ball shooter might just do it.I have a strange feeling that there may have been a rogue shooter and also account forthe reported "Different Sound". If this would be the case I think we have a picture of the possible shooter. Picture one shows a pickup with someone standing beside it directly behind the Limo up on the TSBD driveway.picture two shows how quickly the vehicle is gone.picture 3 recovering the .45See if you can find any other pictures or films that show the Truck.

[Alex Hidell]

How on earth can Groden, or anyone else for that matter, offer an opinion on what type of weapon an assassin would use?Generally speaking, an assassin will use whatever weapon he is most comfortable with and whatever weapon he has access to.Files claims he used an X-100 Remington fireball. Why? He was skilled in small arms marksmanship.A .45 cal handgun, while not the most accurate gun in the world due to a heavy kick, can be fired very, very accurately in the hands of a skilled marksman. There are many competitions around the country that involve .45 caliber marksmanship. I have a friend who is a world class marksman with a .45 cal handgun. Believe me, there are people who can fire this weapon with pinpoint accuracy.Remember, the Colt .45 revolver is considered the "gun that won the West" and was the weapon of choice throughout the Western US in the 19th century. Many, many people were killed with a Colt .45 revolver during the "taming of the West".There is no logical, scientific reason to discount the use of a .45 caliber handgun in the assasination.

[Dealey Joe]

Well A.J. I know you are correct in saying there are those who are expert shots with a .45I personally don't know of anyone who shot much with one.I know people that are deadly marksmen with bow and arrow, Wrist rocket ect but they all have limitations.Anyway whoever fired the .45 evidently missed?so I am not sure we can say we have a sharpshooter here?Could this have possibly been another patsy if needed?How do we know.Anyway I was always of the impression the the Winchester Model 1873 riflewas the gun that won the west??

[Alex Hidell]

I am making no claims that anyone used a .45 cal weapon that day. Nor, if they did, am I claiming they were a good shot.My claim is simple- NO ONE can rule out the possibility of someone using a .45 cal weapon that day just because they are hard to use.There are many expert marksman that can dot an i at 50 feet with a .45 cal handgun.There is simply no logical or scientific basis for the claim that NO ONE would have used a .45 cal weapon in the assassination attempt.

[Dealey Joe]

Logically if there was a .45 slug found furrowed in the grass on the south side of Elm we have to assume someone fired it?My GUESS is there is a great possibility of a rogue shooter who just showed up.Not a good shot using his Macho Colt 45 that he can hardly shoot, "I knew several people like this"and took a pot shot. It may be that he was another possible Patsy? and makes more sense to me.It seems like no attention has been paid to this .45 slug that had to come from somewhere.Groden thinks it was misidentified as a .45, I don't and neither did Roger Craig.

[Alex Hidell]

I am not sure there were any rogue shooters there that day.Anybody with a gun shooting at JFK was most likely part of the plot.There is no reason a shooter couldn't have used a .45 cal weapon. It can't be rueld out and given that a .45 cal slug was apparently found at the scene, then there is a very good chance someone was firing a .45 cal weapon that day.Remember, most eyewitnesses felt they heard between 4-6 shots but several said they heard as many as 8 and that some of the shots sounded virtually simultaneous.Bottom Line- there could very well have been 8-10 shots with some falling right on top of one another.

[Alex Hidell]

As a point of clarification- Walthers makes no statement about finding a .45 cal slug. Nowhere in his WC testimony refreerd in the above link does he discuss a .45 cal slug. Maybe it's somewhere else in the testimony but it isn't in the link provided here:(