Honest Joes Pawn Shop.

[Davyjones]

A vehicle was seen running around Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination.It may have parked up at the back of the pergola as JFK went past. Do forum members have anything on this?

[dankbaar]

The Vehicle on the Grassy KnollThank you, David and Linda. You've made me feel at home, and I appreciate your interest in this issue.Maybe about two years ago on another forum I brought up the problem of the vehicle on the knoll after I had found a fuller screen version of the Nix film. The version I had seen previously had been edited so that the upper portion of the Grassy Knoll and this vehicle were not visible, and the newer version made me quite curious as to why the vehicle and full view of the Grassy Knoll had been covered up.My interest was dismissed; I was told that this had been discussed some time before; no one on that forum seemed to get excited about this vehicle and why it was located where it was and then remained in view during the Nix filming of the head shot to the President's brain and even afterwards. It was also located in a spot I thought could have been ideal for the frontal shot to the throat of the President which had occurred shortly after the presidential limousine had turned onto Elm Street from Houston Street, although I had no direct evidence that this would have been the location of one of the shooters. However, a figure has been observed with the vehicle in some photos by others.From reading I learned that the Dallas police were not allowing cars to enter the Elm Street spur in front of the School Book Depository Building which leads to the back of the pergola and to the parking lot behind the wooden stockade fence on the Grassy Knoll just before the motorcade was due to arrive. However, spectators had been driving up to park their cars prior to this time. Therefore, this vehicle could have arrived before the motorcade appeared in Dealey Plaza, or an exception could have been made for a well known Dallas citizen by the police.I have personally walked around all of this area when attending meetings on the assassination held in Dallas. On my first trip in 1991, I went behind the pergola and came out on Elm Street that way. As I did so, I thought that if I still had my 1969 Pontiac Widetrack station wagon, I could have driven it onto the Grassy Knoll. There was enough space there for such a large car. This was years before I ever saw the Nix film.As often happens, without seeking specific information on the internet, I stumbled across two eyewitness reports. Jean Hill, the schoolteacher who was with her friend, Mary Moorman, as spectators on the south side of Elm Street across from the Grassy Knoll. In her statements she mentioned that before the motorcade arrived, she and Mary had walked around the Plaza, looking for an ideal spot. She noticed a vehicle which had a name on its side and the side and back windows were covered up with cardboard. This vehicle apparently had "Honest Joe's Pawnshop" painted on it. It was circling around the Plaza, advertising the pawn shop.Another eyewitness reported the same thing. This man was a former Marine who had been in combat and knew about the sounds of rifle firing. His position was on the north side of Elm Street, and he, too, noticed the conspicuous station wagon with the words. "Honest Joe's Pawnshop" driving back and forth and around the Plaza. He gave his report to the Dallas police, but he was not called to testify by the Warren Commission, At the moment I don't recall his name, and it was so long ago, but I shall try to find his testimony again.My suspicion is that the vehicle on the Grassy Knoll was "Honest Joe's". The cardboard-covered windows are certainly suspicious. Honest Joe was a pawnbroker by the name of Rubin Silverstein* (I hope my memory is correct about the last name) who was also called "Ruby". He was a good friend of Jack Ruby's and served as the evaluator and possibly the executor of Jack Ruby's estate after he died.In her book, Nightmare in Dallas, Beverly Oliver describes running to the Grassy Knoll immediately after the president's limousine had sped away and saw "Geneva White's husband" dressed in what appeared to be an incomplete policeman's uniform and without a pistol. That would have been Roscoe White who had been hired by the Dallas Police Department as a clerk and photographer in October, 1963. He was not yet a police officer as his training period had not been completed, so he was not allowed to have a uniform at all. He became a police officer upon completion of his training in 1964. His wife, Geneva, had worked for Jack Ruby at his Carousel Club.There is more to say, but I shall stop here for now. I hope I've aroused your curiosity because this vehicle, so often seen by Dallas residents, probably was just ignored by many of them and by the police, and few, if any at all, as far as I know, have paid much attention to it, including assassination researchers.Honest Joe's station wagon was an Edsel (remember the Edsel by Ford Motor Company?). It had a mock machine gun on its roof, as Honest Joe dealt in guns of all sorts. Some Edsel station wagons were used as ambulances by hospitals because of their large and roomy capacity. The vehicle appears white in photographs, but could have been a pale color, yellow, green, or blue. This point should be researched.Adele*Correction - ("Honest Joe" was Rubin Goldstein, I believe. Some have referred to him as Silverstein, which was the name I recalled by mistake above. - AE)Last edited by Adele Edisen; 10-05-2008 at 10:02 PM.https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sh ... assy-Knoll

[Davyjones]

Thanks Wim...I did see this thread on another site and wondered if it had been a topic on Murdersolveds forum.My first thought was that this vehicle could help to confirm beyond doubt that J Files was on the Grassy Knoll.Does anybody know if J Files saw the vehicle driving on the road?On his walk back to Nicolettis car J Files would have passed by the pergola and he could have seen it then?The car is supposed to be a big station wagon with prominant signs, Honest Joes Pawnshop on the side and a mock GUN TURRET at the back!!!The owner has links with Jack Ruby and others including Mac Wallace and on to Tippit.

[Wayne Stracener]

http://www.smudailymustang.com/?p=18230

[Dealey Joe]

Honest "Joe" here!This is the picture that shows what I thought was a pickup but could well be a wagon.I have watched the nix film but can't see it It is gone imediatly arter the shot.Here is James FIles walking away just seconds after the shot. Gone

[Bighunter43]

Two things come to mind: 1.) It would be rather "incriminating" and easy to identify the car if someone witnessed any strange activity coming from it (with Honest Joes Pawn Shop on the side of it) 2.) Then again, apparently from what I've read, the car was seen being driven around so often in the area that it just might be the perfect "disguise" to have a shooter in there, as people would tend to think that the owner (Goldstein) was just parked there for advertisement or watching the motorcade and people may not have given it a second thought. (If it WAS the car parked near the depository) Strange that whoever drove that car in the pics disappeared so rapidly!

[Kirk]

This whole thread about Honest Joe is the first I have ever heard of this. Some times Life is not only stranger then fiction, but better written and harder to believe.

[Dealey Joe]

I notice old Honest Joe is most likely a member of the Knights of Pythias.Notice the second floor on left building. this was common with these organizations to use upstairs floors for their meeting place generally provided by a benevolent member.As you know there was repercussion of so called subversive organizations generally blamed on the John Birch Society. Keep in mind the locals were actually not always connected to the national organizations. They ran their own show so to speak.My guess is that local subversives use these known organization names to hide behind.

[dankbaar]

Assassination eyewitness Robert Croft took this up-close picture of the President and First Lady after the limousine had made its fatal turn onto Elm Street. Jackie Kennedy, probably to the photographer's immense delight, appears to be looking directly at Mr. Croft when he clicked his camera's shutter.

[Dealey Joe]

Notice there are vehicles in the background which should be the street in front of TSBD.The vehicle on the left is the same with someone standing at the vehicle.The one in the center is definitely a station wagon with someone standing toward the rear.sure puts a different twist on things.I still think someone from that area most likely fired a .45?That .45 found in the grass had to come from somewhere in that vicinity